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[Think0028]

... Wow, he's kinda dropped off the forums all together. Still, he was on as recently as Friday.

[Max White]

YOU WILL NOT HAMMER YOURSELF.

YOU DO NOT VOTE YOURSELF IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Alright, I will bite. Why?
In any normal game, sure, your not doing your group any service by voting for yourself. Indeed, your just making life harder for them. But this isn't a normal game, this is a vengeful game. From nothing more then a mathematical point of view, for any townie, killing a single scum is worth more than protecting a single townie. So, what overwhelming factor did I miss that deserves keyboard cruise control?

[lordnincompoop]

YOU WILL NOT HAMMER YOURSELF.

YOU DO NOT VOTE YOURSELF IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Alright, I will bite. Why?
In any normal game, sure, your not doing your group any service by voting for yourself. Indeed, your just making life harder for them. But this isn't a normal game, this is a vengeful game. From nothing more then a mathematical point of view, for any townie, killing a single scum is worth more than protecting a single townie. So, what overwhelming factor did I miss that deserves keyboard cruise control?

In your own words:

your not doing your group any service by voting for yourself. Indeed, your just making life harder for them.

Additionally, there is no time limit to the day, and the death of a scumplayer is not guaranteed by the Vengekill. It is always better for the town to play out the day as long as possible.

[Think0028]

Rule one of Mafia: Mafia is a game of information. Removing any source of information is anti-town. Thus, lurking is anti-town, refusing to answer questions is anti-town, self-hammering is anti-town (it ends the day, preventing people from gathering more information), self-voting is anti-town (it pushes you closer to lynch and reduces the effort scum needs to bump you off), giving up is anti-town (by not fighting back, you willingly let town lynch you without forcing scum to act),

[lordnincompoop]

Rule one of Mafia: Mafia is a game of information. Removing any source of information is anti-town. Thus, lurking is anti-town, refusing to answer questions is anti-town, self-hammering is anti-town (it ends the day, preventing people from gathering more information), self-voting is anti-town (it pushes you closer to lynch and reduces the effort scum needs to bump you off), giving up is anti-town (by not fighting back, you willingly let town lynch you without forcing scum to act),

This too.

[IronyOwl]

Votecount
Supercharazad - 1 - Max White
Max White - 2 - major_sephiroth, Supercharazad
Think0028 - 0
Okami No Rei - 0
major_sephiroth - 2 - Okami No Rei, Think0028

[Max White]

Rule one of Mafia: Mafia is a game of information. Removing any source of information is anti-town. Thus, lurking is anti-town, refusing to answer questions is anti-town, self-hammering is anti-town (it ends the day, preventing people from gathering more information), self-voting is anti-town (it pushes you closer to lynch and reduces the effort scum needs to bump you off), giving up is anti-town (by not fighting back, you willingly let town lynch you without forcing scum to act),

The biggest problem with this is that scum are also a source of information, but it is our goal to remove them. Surly the best source for finding other scum would be the person who knows who they all are, but on that logic we would never vote a scum out and nobody would ever win.

Or is that why I am currently being discouraged to vote for major_sephiroth?

[Supercharazad]

Rule one of Mafia: Mafia is a game of information. Removing any source of information is anti-town. Thus, lurking is anti-town, refusing to answer questions is anti-town, self-hammering is anti-town (it ends the day, preventing people from gathering more information), self-voting is anti-town (it pushes you closer to lynch and reduces the effort scum needs to bump you off), giving up is anti-town (by not fighting back, you willingly let town lynch you without forcing scum to act),

The biggest problem with this is that scum are also a source of information, but it is our goal to remove them. Surly the best source for finding other scum would be the person who knows who they all are, but on that logic we would never vote a scum out and nobody would ever win.

Or is that why I am currently being discouraged to vote for major_sephiroth?

No.


Scum are not a source of information, they are a target to be destroyed.

[Max White]

So, the people who have no way to be sure what is going on are a priceless source of truth, while the people that can see the game in context of who is and is not scum are worth squat. Seems a little counter intuitive.
Even if the scum are working against you, they have a quota to meet, and have to act on that one day, else they will fail, so you can trust a scum to one day act like scum, but you can never trust a townie, because they could very well be wrong about their accusations. The only tricky bit is figuring out who to trust... Then voting out their scummy ass.

[Supercharazad]

So, the people who have no way to be sure what is going on are a priceless source of truth, while the people that can see the game in context of who is and is not scum are worth squat. Seems a little counter intuitive.
Even if the scum are working against you, they have a quota to meet, and have to act on that one day, else they will fail, so you can trust a scum to one day act like scum, but you can never trust a townie, because they could very well be wrong about their accusations. The only tricky bit is figuring out who to trust... Then voting out their scummy ass.

No. Stop with the hypothetical shit.
That is not helping in any way.


Okami, hurry up, you probably get to decide which of us is hammered.

[lordnincompoop]

Actually, the hammerer is probably Max White in this case.

But!

I'd appreciate it if you could delay that for a bit. I can't post anything of substance 'til Friday, June 10th and there's some stuff I'd like to cover with you guys.

I realise that this is bad, and yes shame on me for being such a bad IC but this is unavoidable. Sorry.

[lordnincompoop]

My PMing ability has been removed due to a bugged flood prevention system, sorry.

A four-day delay is pretty bad. Is there any way to speed that along, like by asking someone else to explain something you don't have the time to go into detail on?

The date itself is not negotiable.

I'll try and see if I can pull another IC into this for some help, then, and maybe I'll be able to post one-two things but that's probs it.

[Max White]

Actually, the hammerer is probably Max White in this case.

Well let us assume I did choose to hammer major_sephiroth, that still could leave us in an awkward position, because if he is a townie we are left waiting to see who he vengekills. I would rather not hammer somebody for inactivity, if only because there is a chance is will lock us up until he comes back. That isn't even taking into account the fact that we all have real lives, and there are a million reasons why somebody would be unexpectedly unable to vote, most likely against their will.

If major_sephiroth doesn't come back in four days, you don't need to worry about me voting him out, but if he doesn't have a good reason when he returns, I think some of us would be just a little annoyed.

[Think0028]

Yeah, I think we're just waiting on Okami and major. I doubt major is going to hammer himself, but his explanation will be relevant. Okami could switch the lynch from major to Super quite easily.

[Okami No Rei]

At this point I'm convinced Major and Super are our scum.  I'm willing to move forward with a lynch on Super, but in light of LNCP's difficulties, I see no problem with waiting for Major to get back in here to defend himself.