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[DarkWolfXV]

Dubstep doesn't suck, no genre sucks. They can all be enjoyable.

I agree with this. Just because someone doesn't like a genre doesn't make it all that sucky and full of fail. Also, dubstep today is what dubstep enthusiasts of the old times call 'brostep'. That being said, there are sucky artists... You can blame them instead.

Dubstep makers dont even play instruments, while i even rock which i dont like a lot is better than dubstep, people play instrument(s) and it takes skill to do so. Unless you prove me wrong.

Well, you do know that there are other aspects of music, rather than just instruments and the
skills needed to play them? Just to further pimp out my love for Meshuggah I'll say that part of
what makes them good is the insanely intricate and complex levels of theory they incorporate
outside of their instrumental skills. They have parts that are so mind-numbingly simple you'll ask
yourself why they're actually there, but mix it up with parts that need more skills to play.
It's all for the sake of pacing and composition, really.
Composition is the keyword here, since that is what separates good techno/house/whatever
from the garbage. This is the reason for why so much of the techno music genre is absolute
garbage, since if all you need to do to make music is download the "music maker fx lbah blah
whatever" program to make it, what's to stop a complete moron from making music? They just
go by personal feel or whatever, instead of an actual knowledge of how music fundamentally
works.
While I'm no fan of Skrillex, for example, you can kinda see how he has at least some knowledge
of music theory in the back of his head while he's making music. That's probably because he had
a background in the arts.

DarkWolf, that makes so little sense. So every single song that has ever been made, where people don't play instruments, suck? All right, cool.
Being amazing at playing an instrument takes skill. Being amazing at producing, mastering and mixing takes skill.
Even though a song might take "no skill" to produce, does not mean it cannot be enjoyed, either.

That being said, music taste is subjective, so I wonder why we're even having this argument.

Music for the music thread.
Scale the Summit - Black Hills

Very true, all of it, like I said previously. Music taste is subjective, however if a band is good or
not is NOT entirely subjective. Plenty of bands I detest that have remarkable skills.

Also: bonus points for Scale the summit.

Well, such music like duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubstep is not complex, you dont even have to master your tracks, only mix them, since you take drum beats and stuff from programs.

I like bands that are great at playing instruments, like Cannibal Corpse. While cover art is gross to me, i still enjoy it becouse it would (or maybe will) take me lots of time to be at level of thier guitarist.

DarkWolf, that makes so little sense. So every single song that has ever been made, where people don't play instruments, suck? All right, cool.
Being amazing at playing an instrument takes skill. Being amazing at producing, mastering and mixing takes skill.
Even though a song might take "no skill" to produce, does not mean it cannot be enjoyed, either.

That being said, music taste is subjective, so I wonder why we're even having this argument.

Music for the music thread.
Scale the Summit - Black Hills

Music when people dont play instruments can sound good, but it feels lifeless to know that no one plays this.

Since I expect a flame war to happen, I'm going to post Napalm Death.

NAPALM DEATH FTW!

[Tofu]

*Stuffstuffstuff*

Well, such music like duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubstep is not complex, you dont even have to master your tracks, only mix them, since you take drum beats and stuff from programs.

I like bands that are great at playing instruments, like Cannibal Corpse. While cover art is gross to me, i still enjoy it becouse it would (or maybe will) take me lots of time to be at level of thier guitarist.

Well, no, in comparison to Cannibal Corpse, Tool or whatever it isn't exactly complex, but it still has
something going for it. Its use of intervals, dissonant harmonies etc. is something uncommon in the techno
genre. Some might say it's more related to heavy metal or even classical music. Something that it also has
going for it is that it has an actual compositional structure, compared to most other techno music. It's not
just gradually getting louder or whatever, but you see that there are several significantly different segments
in it. The "bass drop", for example is actually very similar to a breakdown in some sense, except it's kind of used to a
different effect. Within dubstep they don't take the beats from programs, as far as I know. There simply
isn't a standard template for tri-tone intervals, I think. Though, I'm no expert on music by far, just my
two cents.

Music when people dont play instruments can sound good, but it feels lifeless to know that no one plays this.

Now, although this is personal preference, I have to agree. There just isn't the amount of energy or soul that
you get from people actually bleeding and sweating for their music. That personal commitment and that skill
required to make such music is nothing short of admirable. And while I have some modicum of respect for a
select few techno bands, nothing can compare to the respect I have for skillfull musicians playing 4 realz.

[Realmfighter]

I fail to see how difficulty makes music sound better.

I've heard songs I could play instantly on the piano(And I don't play the piano) that I've loved and songs that would take me years to even begin to play that are shit.

And I don't really think you understand how complex some of this stuff can get. You can't just grab a beat add some synths and then win a grammy.

[DarkWolfXV]

I fail to see how difficulty makes music sound better.

I've heard songs I could play instantly on the piano(And I don't play the piano) that I've loved and songs that would take me years to even begin to play that are shit.

And I don't really think you understand how complex some of this stuff can get. You can't just grab a beat add some synths and then win a grammy.

But you can go 400 bpm solo (or whatever isnt beaten yet) and get title of fastest guitarist or whatever u play in world, and complexity gives sense of accomplishment like "FUCK YEA im the only man on planet being able to play that"

Although overly complex things sometimes sound worse, but if some people had equal tech skill to their amazing creativity/ composing skill they would sound great.

And sometimes when u got sensez of accomplishmentz you can die with peace. Ya finally achieved something in your life, and wont die as dull standard man/woman.

[Tofu]

I fail to see how difficulty makes music sound better.

I've heard songs I could play instantly on the piano(And I don't play the piano) that I've loved and songs that would take me years to even begin to play that are shit.

And I don't really think you understand how complex some of this stuff can get. You can't just grab a beat add some synths and then win a grammy.

I'm not saying that difficulty makes music sound better no
matter what, I'm just saying that skills don't ONLY apply to
your own personal command of a chosen instrument.
Your ability to comprehend the theory needed to make great
music is also important. Skill with an instrument usually comes with that. Usually.
For a great example of this, just look at Yngwie Malmsteen .
You just couldn't pull that off without that complexity or skill.
And I already said that this stuff could get pretty complex.
Just not so often that's the case.

Now, of course some great music is simple, and some great
music is complex. I can't JUST listen to complex music, if I
did I would never appreciate the simple, and visa-versa.
I love me some Asian Kung-Fu Generation for example.
It's not terribly complex, and a joy to listen to.
The thing is, that even the simple needs some sort of
understanding of how music works for it to be enjoyable.
Either that, or the musician is incredibly lucky. I don't know.
The problem arises when the argument for simplicity/difficulty
becomes a defense for the monotone and terrible.
Though that's not what's going on here, thank christ.

Although overly complex things sometimes sound worse, but if some people had equal tech skill to their amazing creativity/ composing skill they would sound great.

This, so damn much. There are so many bands I want to punch
in the face for dragging themselves down, purely because they
don't want to look " composition" and how to use it. Black metal,
I'm looking at the majority of you. Though, on the other hand,
not ALL music really needs composition as much as other things,
but that's highly unlikely.

[Siquo]

Have to agree with Tofu here, although I do like me some Skrillex, and I must note that "playing an instrument" is overrated. The music, the actual sound that reaches my ears, is what matters. Whether you generated it on a computer, or you actually tortured 500 kittens to get that epic scream doesn't matter to me if it sounds the same. Difference is that electronic music is just "meh", if you see it live, where "real" music can pick you up and carry you away...

And I love your taste Animals As Leaders was my last concert (Just... wow... they can play), and I'll be seeing Meshuggah as my next one. Thanks for the other bands, listening to them now.

[Tofu]

Have to agree with Tofu here, although I do like me some Skrillex, and I must note that "playing an instrument" is overrated. The music, the actual sound that reaches my ears, is what matters. Whether you generated it on a computer, or you actually tortured 500 kittens to get that epic scream doesn't matter to me if it sounds the same. Difference is that electronic music is just "meh", if you see it live, where "real" music can pick you up and carry you away...

And I love your taste Animals As Leaders was my last concert (Just... wow... they can play), and I'll be seeing Meshuggah as my next one. Thanks for the other bands, listening to them now.

Well, I guess you're kinda right about that one. Same thing about paintings and drawings,
really. Digital, oils, watercolor-- fuckin' crayons-- Doesn't really matter.

And seriously? You got to see Animals as Leaders live? You got to see Tosin Abasi, the god?
 Oh man, you lucky bastard! And Meshuggah as well...You are incredibly lucky. I'll have to
wait for a while until I can hear Meshuggah live, and Animals as Leaders will probably be
never. Unless I buy a plane ticket over to England (weren't they touring together there for a while?).

And you're welcome, I got loads more if you want more suggestions.
If you have any suggestions, then go ahead, come at me, bro!

[Reudh]

Dubstep doesn't suck, no genre sucks. They can all be enjoyable.

I agree with this. Just because someone doesn't like a genre doesn't make it all that sucky and full of fail. Also, dubstep today is what dubstep enthusiasts of the old times call 'brostep'. That being said, there are sucky artists... You can blame them instead.

Aye. Martyn is a good example of dubstep; it's very true to the parent genres of dub and 2-step. Cookie Monsta is good too. Ephixa is really good, with his roots in hardstyle he brings something different to it.

Modern dubstep be it called 'Brostep' or 'Skrubstep' is bloody awful. Skrillex's songs largely boil down to these steps:

High pitched voice thing
Sound bite
Wobs that sound like someone going OWH over and over
Repeat.

[DarkWolfXV]

Have to agree with Tofu here, although I do like me some Skrillex, and I must note that "playing an instrument" is overrated. The music, the actual sound that reaches my ears, is what matters. Whether you generated it on a computer, or you actually tortured 500 kittens to get that epic scream doesn't matter to me if it sounds the same. Difference is that electronic music is just "meh", if you see it live, where "real" music can pick you up and carry you away...

*sigh* Nowadays people dont give a shit how music is made;(
Its incredibly elf-like to think like this. Would you prefer to use magma to solve everything, or make complicated series of traps, get some bone parts and haz moar funz in process?
But there is yet to be a program which creates death growls, pig squeals, screams (like growled, screamed etc. words, not random growls or screams)

Btw you wanna know how to create techno? turn on ur car, record engine noise and turn it backwards, add some reverb, flanger or w/e, gratz u created techno.

[Aequor]

So dubstep aside, I've been listening to the various songs of 'the Symphony of Science' for the past week or so, and I don't think they've been mentioned on here before (search didn't show it).

They're songs made from quotes from various scientists auto-tuned to a tune, and they're awesome distilled into pure form. I particularly recommend 'The Quantum World', 'We Are All Connected' and 'The Greatest Show on Earth' and what the heck, all of them.

[Realmfighter]

Btw you wanna know how to create techno? turn on ur car, record engine noise and turn it backwards, add some reverb, flanger or w/e, gratz u created techno.

Btw you wanna know how you make guitar solos? You grab a guitar and hit some strings really fast. Oh wait no you don't and I'm stupid for insulting an entire genre of music because I dislike it.

[Reudh]

Btw you wanna know how to create techno? turn on ur car, record engine noise and turn it backwards, add some reverb, flanger or w/e, gratz u created techno.

Btw you wanna know how you make guitar solos? You grab a guitar and hit some strings really fast. Oh wait no you don't and I'm stupid for insulting an entire genre of music because I dislike it.

That's a maaaaaassssssiive generalisation, Darkwolf. You clearly don't know how many different genres of electronic there are. You're thinking that Techno = Brostep. You're wrong.

And before dissing an entire super-genre, GO MAKE YOUR OWN SONG THAT IS BETTER.

[Siquo]

Whoawhoa everyone CHILL.


Thank you. 

Darkwolf, please keep in mind that de gustibus non disputandum est. Personally, I like the sound of car engines turned backwards. So?
Please allow others to express their tastes, without criticism. (Seriously, I got a Toady Warning for doing that here, I'm helping you not get muted ).

[Trapezohedron]

Dubstep doesn't suck, no genre sucks. They can all be enjoyable.

I agree with this. Just because someone doesn't like a genre doesn't make it all that sucky and full of fail. Also, dubstep today is what dubstep enthusiasts of the old times call 'brostep'. That being said, there are sucky artists... You can blame them instead.

Dubstep makers dont even play instruments, while i even rock which i dont like a lot is better than dubstep, people play instrument(s) and it takes skill to do so. Unless you prove me wrong.

You don't know how hard it is to twiddle knobs around to get the sound right. Personally, I think that good music doesn't stem from what instrument was used to play it. It stems from its production values. Skrillex sucks for me, most of the time, although that's mostly because of his heavy usage of dirty wubwubs. That said, knowing how to play an instrument is a good bonus for being awesome.

In short, stop comparing classical or whatever music that uses instruments with techno and the like. If you watch Skrillex's live concerts, you can also see that he has a MIDI keyboard with him too, as well as a MIDI controller full of knobs and such.

Sorry for dragging this argument even longer.

[Aklyon]

Whoa, suddenly argument. I should probably check this more often than I do, I guess. Seems to be calmed down, but I'll stick this in here anyway.

Please amplify your relaxed states.