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[scotch208]

I was wondering if toady was going to be adding temples to the new cities. It would be awesome to go on a cleansing(good or bad ) of a city in the name of some deity. Or killing the priest and taking over his position to steal the collection and poison the minds of the populace. 

Most of this is for use with adventure mode in mind.

Also temples could serve for many other things.
having a soup kitchen to feed the homeless.
A place to meet party members or NPCs.
confessionals
the 'hospital' could also be located here
A place to escape the night horrors for the homeless.
a place for the king/lord/duke to HAVE to go one day a week(religious services) where he could be vulnerable to assassinations
a place for the town\surrounding house holds\people of the religion go to have religious service once a week, leaving thier households unattended for stealing from or planting evidence ect.
Bring companions bodies for burial services.
Get married.
Perhaps they could maintain a library with that civilizations version of history. there are many accounts through out history where a battle was recorded as won by both sides, even though one side actually lost, thus their own 'view' of history.
a mausoleum with the dead leaders and all their goodies for the taking.
A graveyard around it for various graveyard things

[IT 000]

I don't see any temples on the current city maps, but if they are ever put in again they should use many ideas that you suggested. Of course it would have to depend on the alignment of the god they worship. A temple to the suicide god should not have a hospital in it.

Also once thieving is in it should be possible to rob temples, they will have a lot of gold, and valuables, possibly artifacts, but you will have the wraith of god after you (literally). Creatures will be more aggressive, perhaps some randomly generated 'angel' will attack you occasionally, once diseases are in a continuous plague might befall you until you give it back.

[scotch208]

Yea I was posting in hopes toady would see it and put temples in due to all the awesome stuff that could be done with them.

[sockless]

There shouldn't be divine consequences for stealing from a temple. I like it how in DF right now, gods aren't tangible, like in real life (not trying to offend, but when did you last see an angel?).

[Mister Always]

There shouldn't be divine consequences for stealing from a temple. I like it how in DF right now, gods aren't tangible, like in real life (not trying to offend, but when did you last see an angel?).

I dropped acid two months ago.  I saw angels, white mice and blue stars.

[Starver]

There shouldn't be divine consequences for stealing from a temple. I like it how in DF right now, gods aren't tangible, like in real life (not trying to offend, but when did you last see an angel?).

I dropped acid two months ago.  I saw angels, white mice and blue stars.

...but once you'd taken the acid, they went away, right?

Anyway, there is one tangible god.  You, in fortress mode.  Arguably (currently at least) only has a limited range, and a limited range of powers (planting vague ideas for digging/building/etc into the local population's heads).  To that end, I think stealing from a temple should at least give you a degree of persona-non-grata status from all the settlement's associated persons.  But that's a bit close to the standard shop-lifting reaction, so perhaps it's a bit more wide-spread. Active hostility from priests (possibly some suspicion, in case you repeat, but initially and overtly more friendship from priests of non-aligned temples), gruffness from the local populace according to their alignment, and possibility of attack from local warriors/law-givers in a like way.

Further afield, might depend upon the connection to the site of the desecration (also lines of communication), tailing off or (as per the unaligned priesthood) even turning into a positive rep of kinds.  Perhaps robbing some other town's temple and then gifting the loot would be a good reputation-enhancer.  Selling it (if possible) might be seen as little more than a mercenary action, of course.

With appropriate levels of sneakery[1], of course, the source temple might not be aware of your action (doesn't stop the god knowing, but might make it harder for them to justify the thoughts of violence in the local soldiery) and the destination town of your ill-gotten gains might not care too much about their origin.  I could see two towns being played off against each other (with increasing risks, with increasing patrols over any remaining artefacts).  Maybe knowledge of where the artefacts ended up could spawn further opportunities, from open war between towns (you might be asked to lead an assault, if not both assaults in each direction!) to a more friendly 'recovery' agreement where you're asked to act as courier (all the while with a big target on your butt... which is Ok only as long as you're the only active outlaw in the area, but the news may bring others into the area) in order to arrange an amicable return, and possibly also transport reciprocal gifts of great (financial, not spiritual) value in thanks.


Shopkeepers Guilds and Mercantile Estates might have their own equivalents in the place of the existing shop-lifting incidents, various armed forces might have military pacts which allow trans-settlement (or civilisation?) warrants to be issued (or rewards for bad behaviour amongst the enemy!), and either further associations amongst the other professions or a general settlement/civ-based reaction alongside all the rest of the specific reactions.


[1] Traditional sneaking and the use of disguises that I recall being mentioned in the devlogs.

[IT 000]

There shouldn't be divine consequences for stealing from a temple. I like it how in DF right now, gods aren't tangible, like in real life (not trying to offend, but when did you last see an angel?).

Regardless of how you feel about God, let us not compare real life God and the gods in DF. It'll just end up in a flame war and piss everyone people off. Having divine consequences will result in Fun² It shouldn't be like NetHack, where hundreds of random animals spawn to kill you, but it should be somewhere between really really bad luck and an angel coming to demand that you give the stolen item back to him (Attacking you or increasing the bad luck until you accept). Perhaps even through a few 'plagues' in there, like rats follow you everywhere and lower your stature with other townspeople.

Further afield, might depend upon the connection to the site of the desecration (also lines of communication), tailing off or (as per the unaligned priesthood) even turning into a positive rep of kinds.  Perhaps robbing some other town's temple and then gifting the loot would be a good reputation-enhancer.  Selling it (if possible) might be seen as little more than a mercenary action, of course.

I suppose there should be a few ways of stopping the wrath. It should depend on the alignment. If the god is good leaning he may be fine with you giving the loot to the poor. If the god is bad leaning, he won't stop until you give the loot back, and if you give it away the curse will just befell the receiver.

I think it would be interesting to have corrupt priests. High Priests will have a 1/20 chance of being corrupt, by corrupt they demand more gold from the townspeople. Maybe even asking for human/animal sacrifices. Instead of living a modest life they will live lavishly and arrogantly. If the priest is corrupt and the god at the temple is 'good' leaning, the god might request that you steal the money from the temple to punish the priest for his misdeeds. It could come with strings attached like 'Give it to the poor/king/children or my wrath will befall you' or not.

[Starver]

Further afield, might depend upon the connection to the site of the desecration (also lines of communication), tailing off or (as per the unaligned priesthood) even turning into a positive rep of kinds.  Perhaps robbing some other town's temple and then gifting the loot would be a good reputation-enhancer.  Selling it (if possible) might be seen as little more than a mercenary action, of course.

I suppose there should be a few ways of stopping the wrath. It should depend on the alignment. If the god is good leaning he may be fine with you giving the loot to the poor. If the god is bad leaning, he won't stop until you give the loot back, and if you give it away the curse will just befell the receiver.

I was thinking more another-town=>another-temple=>another-god, where a certain degree of rivalry (more of a sectarian nature than an ecclesiastical or even supernatural one, but with perhaps some elements of divine direction anyway) was the prime issue.

But gifting 'liberated' items might also impress the 'home god' if the temple is indeed being run by more (shall we say[1]) Catholic-type priesthood who had somehow ended up acting as the front-men to a more Methodist-style god.  I could see Toady setting up the possibility of that happening, in his quantum-level tracking of the world.


[1] No bias intended, just descriptively

[Jeoshua]

Once Taverns and Inns are in, most of the code necessary to make a true Church would be in the game.  At that point, I pray that we will see churches.  And ones devoted to the already-in-lore gods.  Different things could happen based on what the god represented.

A God of Mountains would have his temple in the mountains.

A God of Festivals would probably have festivals very often.

A God of Sacrifice would... well let's just say the altar wouldn't be made of Rubies, now.

[Dwarven WMD]

Actually, in reference to the thieving,
How are you going to actually SELL something stolen from a temple?
Say I just stole some sort of figure of worship from the main temple of a certain religion. If that religion is well-known, people are going to know what that thing I'm trying to fence to them is, and if that God isn't obscure and actually does things, I'm pretty sure that people are going to be scared shitless of taking it.

I do recall fences (As in the illicit kind, not the kind that acts as a wall.) being in the development log, but even if the guy you're selling it to is Black Market Bubba, it's going to be difficult to sell.
Then, and this is just from a story perspective, who the HELL is going to buy it? The fences buy things to sell them, not only would the fencer likely fear possessing a stolen cornerstone of a religion, what force is going to make him think he can sell it? An opposing religion might buy it, but what are you going to do, walk in dressed in a cloak, then say "Hey, kid, c'mere... Wanna buy the Sword of Molten Blood Running?"

You could always adorn your hideout with it, though. That works. Maybe with enough religious artifacts, you can do something ghastly to yourself. Or you could rob the temples of their gold and leave the artifacts.

[Jeoshua]

... or

You could just melt them down for scrap metals, like the Nazis did to a lot of the Jewish artifacts they took.

[Dwarven WMD]

Actually, that's a relatively good idea.
Perhaps counterfeiting things could also be possible later in the game? Because if you melt the object down you could just launder it into money by making coins from it.

"Where did you get so much gold?"
"Let's just say I got it from the God of Greed."

[Jeoshua]

If it's classic coinage, melting down any golden object into coin-sized ingots would be appropriate and worth the same as a coin.  Coins weren't valuable because they were stamped with the king's vissage.  They were valuable because they were gold.  And any object can be weighted.  Therefore any gold coinage, no matter it's imprint or make, would be worth it's literal weight in gold.

[NW_Kohaku]

It is possible to counterfeit gold coins - just take a cheaper material, and dip it in gold to make it look like the whole thing is gold. 

If you've ever seen a movie of someone actually biting a coin, that's what they're doing - testing to see if it's counterfeit gold or silver coin, because a cheaper metal isn't as malleable as gold or silver.

[Jeoshua]

True that.  Another method is "shaving" coins of true make and vintage, into smaller coins.  This kind of counterfeiting only works on the small scale, and only "multiplies" money.  Trying to use it to purchase, say, land, would take more gold than one could easily count... meaning they'd use a scale, and therefore shaving is not appropriate for that situation.