Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Yes, it would allow me to make an effective military earlier.

Yes, it would allow and encourage a greater variety of weapons to be used in a fort.

No, but I'd like to see a greater variety in training weapons.

No, things are fine as they are.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I can imagine dwarves, lacking access to metal or fuel, making stone maces or bone spears or something.
Now that metals are rare, wooden training spears, axes, and swords backed up with crossbows firing wooden or bone bolts just won't really cut it, since there is no "just wait until you hit hematite." If you're really unlucky, you might end up with nothing but gold, platinum, and cobalite, and not even be able to make copper hammers or whatever on your own.
Maybe it's trying to make trading more useful, but if stone or bone weapons were less effective than metal ones (not unrealistic), then there would still be about as much pressure to trade -gold goblet-s for steel bars or *cobalite mug*s for iron maces or whatever...but the player could survive sieges until then without simply sealing out the invaders, leaving you as helpless as a tortoise hiding in its shell, waiting for the eagle to go away. Or whatever.
In fact, not only that, but as a side benefit, it would give maces purpose! They're what you use until you get a decent military and can afford <<+silver warhammer+>>s.

What do you think? Good idea or bad idea?

[Lortath]

Lot of that can be made with modding.
Add [tags] to the objects/metal in your folder, and you have it.

We don't really need the Toad for that.

Also, these situations (no metal for weapons) can be a part of the gameplay (trading, caravan arc, anyone?) or a challenge for some people.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Lot of that can be made with modding.
Add [tags] to the objects/metal in your folder, and you have it.

We don't really need the Toad for that.

Also, these situations (no metal for weapons) can be a part of the gameplay (trading, caravan arc, anyone?) or a challenge for some people.

A. You can make almost anything with modding. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be nice to have it availabble for people who can't/don't want to/don't feel like modding. I fall firmly into the first category when it comes to most things.
B. Read the OP more carefully. And if stone weapons would violate your challenge, don't make them! Would you ask to take mining out because it would violate your only-aboveground challenge?
if you would, don't tell me.

[IT 000]

Yes, modding can make all your wildest dreams possible. However, modding can only take things so far, the other civs don't use the primitive weapons, it's either all metal or all wood. Having a civ that could show up with wooden spears and stone hammers would be very helpful for atmosphere and make the encounters more Fun.

Hopefully it will bring about a new 'Primitive Weapons Workshop' of sorts, and you could slap a tag on existing weapons like [WEAPON:STONE] and [WEAPON:WOOD] that will make it automatically show up in the said workshop. Alas it's probably to much to wish for.

As far as training weapons go, they are currently very exploitable. Cutting down trees with wooden axes, danger rooms, and the like. So I would rather not have these expanded.

[GreatWyrmGold]

As far as training weapons go, they are currently very exploitable. Cutting down trees with wooden axes, danger rooms, and the like. So I would rather not have these expanded.

...I don't see how that follows. You can have wooden clubs, training hammers, and tree-cutting training axes all at the same time.

[IT 000]

As far as training weapons go, they are currently very exploitable. Cutting down trees with wooden axes, danger rooms, and the like. So I would rather not have these expanded.

...I don't see how that follows. You can have wooden clubs, training hammers, and tree-cutting training axes all at the same time.

A training club, and a wooden club, I don't really see a difference. So why have both when you can just have the wooden club? It's just a matter of uses really, what is the use of training weapons now that dwarves no longer pin their sparing partner to the wall with their warhammer? Plus, I don't like the tree cutting training axes.

[GreatWyrmGold]

As far as training weapons go, they are currently very exploitable. Cutting down trees with wooden axes, danger rooms, and the like. So I would rather not have these expanded.

...I don't see how that follows. You can have wooden clubs, training hammers, and tree-cutting training axes all at the same time.

A training club, and a wooden club, I don't really see a difference. So why have both when you can just have the wooden club? It's just a matter of uses really, what is the use of training weapons now that dwarves no longer pin their sparing partner to the wall with their warhammer? Plus, I don't like the tree cutting training axes.

A. The difference between a training hammer and a wooden club is the difference between a training spear and a wooden menacing spike. More or less.
B. Okay...wooden club and training pike? It uses a different skill than spears, so it should also probably have a separate training weapon.
C. If you don't like the training axe bug...okay.

[Reelyanoob]

As far as training weapons go, they are currently very exploitable. Cutting down trees with wooden axes, danger rooms, and the like. So I would rather not have these expanded.

Stone-tipped spears would do more damage than a wood-tipped spear, so this would NOT be a good exploit for danger-rooms (where you pick the weakest weapon possible for the trap)

Stone axes/hatchets should do a much better job of cutting down a tree than a wooden one, if they were added (wooden handle, stone axe head) there'd be a way to chop trees before metal smelting is underway, and the training axe could be set to not work at wood-chopping at all (thereby removing the exploit). With stone weapons, there should be a chance to break (less or no chance for obsidian perhaps, make slate good for stone axes too), leaving just the wooden handle. This wooden handle could be a reagent into re-creating the weapon, so you don't run out of wood because your stone axes all break.

People mined with stone tools in the past, so a stone pick could be good, but with the % chance to break (using material strength from the raws), meaning you need a stonecrafter churning out a steady supply. This is seen for example, at Easter Island's stone quarries which are littered with worn-out stone tool-heads.

let us make wooden spades too (or crappy wooden picks), which miners will pick up if nothing else is available, which can dig soil but not rock, then with no metals at all you can at least make a start in the soil layers, using clay for walls etc. It'd be nice if some stone was softer than others or broken up, then you could develop locally from just your wagon's 3 wood, to stoneworking then metal-working without waiting for caravans.

[FGK dwarf]

People mined with stone tools in the past, so a stone pick could be good, but with the % chance to break (using material strength from the raws), meaning you need a stonecrafter churning out a steady supply. This is seen for example, at Easter Island's stone quarries which are littered with worn-out stone tool-heads.

let us make wooden spades too (or crappy wooden picks), which miners will pick up if nothing else is available, which can dig soil but not rock, then with no metals at all you can at least make a start in the soil layers, using clay for walls etc. It'd be nice if some stone was softer than others or broken up, then you could develop locally from just your wagon's 3 wood, to stoneworking then metal-working without waiting for caravans.

There's an old neolithic flint mine near where I live called Grimes Graves. The miners used deer antler picks to dig through chalk to get to the flint nodules. So digging through softer rocks with non-metal picks would have Real Life precedent.

[Dutchling]

I think wooden stakes are good but you can already make wooden trap components.
Maybe stone trap components would be cool, but stone weapons sound kinda lame and minecrafty imo

[Vattic]

stone weapons sound kinda lame and minecrafty imo

It's not so unrealistic. Stone has been used to make axes, hammers, and knives in the past. Types of usable stone should be limited in some way (chert or flint, radiolarite, chalcedony, basalt, quartzite and obsidian according to Wikipedia.). Wood should arguably be required but weapons currently consist of only one material making hitting someone with the wooden handle of your stone-headed axe impossible even with modding. Toady has commented on multi-material / part weapons.

[Korgus]

Wooden clubs would be good as weel, it might be a way to give the elves useful weapons.

[Bohandas]

Wooden clubs would be good as weel, it might be a way to give the elves useful weapons.

That's a good point.

[IT 000]

A. The difference between a training hammer and a wooden club is the difference between a training spear and a wooden menacing spike. More or less.
B. Okay...wooden club and training pike? It uses a different skill than spears, so it should also probably have a separate training weapon.

Yes. But you're comparing a Chevy truck with a Ford truck. I'm comparing two Fords with different paint jobs. What's the difference between a training club and a wooden club? They're both made of wood, and their damage would be the same. There's no reason to have both. Why are you comparing a training club to a training hammer? Yes they are different, but that's not what I was talking about. Same with the Pike and the club.

I do support the idea of making weak, temporary wooden/bone weapons that have a purpose. I also support stone tipped weapons.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

A wooden weapon would still try to place as much force as possible, on the least possible amount of surface area. Preferably also penetrating the skin a bit. A wooden training weapon would try to place as little force as possible on as large an area as possible. With absolutely no sharp stabby bits on it.