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[Zangi]

Well, when you think about it... it has been the American Way to trample over others in the name of 'national security'.  Ever since WWI was it?

Your anti-American attitude is sickening at best. Not only that but exactly who did we trample over in World War I or II?

To elaborate, when America stopped being isolationist and decided to take more part in world affairs.  Though my mistake, it wasn't WWI, but WWII, more specifically the after affects of WWII, the cold war with Russia and what-not.

And I'm glad I brightened up someones day today.

[Urist is dead tome]

Well, when you think about it... it has been the American Way to trample over others in the name of 'national security'.  Ever since WWI was it?

Your anti-American attitude is sickening at best. Not only that but exactly who did we trample over in World War I or II?

To elaborate, when America stopped being isolationist and decided to take more part in world affairs.  Though my mistake, it wasn't WWI, but WWII, more specifically the after affects of WWII, the cold war with Russia and what-not.

And I'm glad I brightened up someones day today.

I think its because at that point we realized that we became a super power.

[Earthquake Damage]

To elaborate, when America stopped being as isolationist and decided to take more part in world affairs.  Though my mistake, it wasn't WWI, but WWII, more specifically the after affects of WWII, the cold war with Russia and what-not.

Fixed.

I don't think the Barbary Wars count as isolationism. 

[Phmcw]

Urist stop calling everyone that disagree with part of America's actions anti American.

But yes US has been a major player everywhere since WW2. Before that it couldn't be efficient far from America, and European power would have been too threatening.

Note that Europeans were happy to interfere with everything, everywhere in the world. Preparing most of the clusterfuck we have to deal with now.

[Zangi]

Well, when you think about it... it has been the American Way to trample over others in the name of 'national security'.  Ever since WWI was it?

Your anti-American attitude is sickening at best. Not only that but exactly who did we trample over in World War I or II?

To elaborate, when America stopped being isolationist and decided to take more part in world affairs.  Though my mistake, it wasn't WWI, but WWII, more specifically the after affects of WWII, the cold war with Russia and what-not.

And I'm glad I brightened up someones day today.

I think its because at that point we realized that we became a super power.

Does that somehow exonerate America?  Sure, I admit some good comes of it, but does that outweigh the bad it perpetuates in its attempts to further its goals?

Also, the Pirates were all up in their trade lanes jacking their trade...  Or something like that.

[Urist is dead tome]

Urist stop calling everyone that disagree with part of America's actions anti American.

But yes US has been a major player everywhere since WW2. Before that it couldn't be efficient far from America, and European power would have been too threatening.

Note that Europeans were happy to interfere with everything, everywhere in the world. Preparing most of the clusterfuck we have to deal with now.

I specifically said his anti-American attitude was sickening, not calling him anti-American.

Does that somehow exonerate America?  Sure, I admit some good comes of it, but does that outweigh the bad it perpetuates in its attempts to further its goals?

Also, the Pirates were all up in their trade lanes jacking their trade...  Or something like that.

What bad has America perpetrated.

[Bauglir]

Urist stop calling everyone that disagree with part of America's actions anti American.

But yes US has been a major player everywhere since WW2. Before that it couldn't be efficient far from America, and European power would have been too threatening.

Note that Europeans were happy to interfere with everything, everywhere in the world. Preparing most of the clusterfuck we have to deal with now.

I specifically said his anti-American attitude was sickening, not calling him anti-American.

To be fair, in English, this is such a fine distinction as to be meaningless unless you specifically point out that that's what you're doing.

[Urist is dead tome]

To be fair, in English, this is such a fine distinction as to be meaningless unless you specifically point out that that's what you're doing.

I can't deny that. Should have been more specific.

[Dutchling]

@Urist
If you are not pro-america it does not mean you are anti-america. There are people in this world who can think for themselves you know?
And bad things america did? I assume you mean things to other countries, because I assume you know about your horrible education/medical/weapon situation?
Let's start with Vietnam, everyone knows about that so I assume you just forget it.
Also: misinforming other countries so they (you?) can start a war (Iraq).
America also helped the USSR with the destruction of Afghanistan and let them rot when America no longer needed them.

These are just a few thins I remember, I'm sure there are people that know more about the subjects.

[Strife26]

Do you want to know what bugs me? The America wrong or wrong, perspective. Would you like to know the benefits of America taking her place as a global superpower? Spending a metric crapton on directly rebuilding Europe? Like not "we'll loan you money" or "we'll have American business build shit" but "take our fucking money and unfuck yourselves, please." Look into the Marshal plan. After that, we've got America providing the primary force behind NATO, and if you want to claim that a direct counterweight to the USSR wasn't necessary after WWII, than you've got some serious problems that simple reason won't help. We've got funding the UN, what good that does. Eh, shall I go on?


Ninja'd Note: Yeah, We've fucked up as a country. Every fucking country in history has fucked up when they've been the super/hyper power. What do you expect? We're not perfect, but we damn well try to do the best that we can.

[Il Palazzo]

Ninja'd Note: Yeah, We've fucked up as a country. Every fucking country in history has fucked up when they've been the super/hyper power. What do you expect? We're not perfect, but we damn well try to do the best that we can.

I'm sure it's what every superpower in the history of mankind tried to do.

Actually, I'm just posting to watch.

[Urist is dead tome]

@Urist
If you are not pro-america it does not mean you are anti-america. There are people in this world who can think for themselves you know?
And bad things america did? I assume you mean things to other countries, because I assume you know about your horrible education/medical/weapon situation?
Let's start with Vietnam, everyone knows about that so I assume you just forget it.
Also: misinforming other countries so they (you?) can start a war (Iraq).
America also helped the USSR with the destruction of Afghanistan and let them rot when America no longer needed them.

These are just a few thins I remember, I'm sure there are people that know more about the subjects.

I already stated that I was referring to his attitude and not how I was the one who should have been more specific with what I meant. And really? Leaving Afghanistan to rot? Have you been asleep for the past twenty years?

Do you want to know what bugs me? The America wrong or wrong, perspective. Would you like to know the benefits of America taking her place as a global superpower? Spending a metric crapton on directly rebuilding Europe? Like not "we'll loan you money" or "we'll have American business build shit" but "take our fucking money and unfuck yourselves, please." Look into the Marshal plan. After that, we've got America providing the primary force behind NATO, and if you want to claim that a direct counterweight to the USSR wasn't necessary after WWII, than you've got some serious problems that simple reason won't help. We've got funding the UN, what good that does. Eh, shall I go on?


Ninja'd Note: Yeah, We've fucked up as a country. Every fucking country in history has fucked up when they've been the super/hyper power. What do you expect? We're not perfect, but we damn well try to do the best that we can.

Hear hear!

[scriver]

Do you want to know what bugs me? The America wrong or wrong, perspective. Would you like to know the benefits of America taking her place as a global superpower? Spending a metric crapton on directly rebuilding Europe? Like not "we'll loan you money" or "we'll have American business build shit" but "take our fucking money and unfuck yourselves, please."

I, humble "anti-american" as I am, always point out to my fellow Swedes when they become stupid in their ranting, that the USA funded the creation of our wellfare state after WWII, even though we had almost nothing to do with it, and for what little we were involved could as well be considered semi-pro-Germany as the opposite. So no, it is not forgotten. But it does not somehow absolve you from criticism of other actions, and critique will always come easier and in bigger quantity than praise.

What bad has America perpetrated.

From the top of my head; funding Al-Qaeda, backing Augusto Pinochet. Seriously, Urist, USA has done a lot of good, but don't open this can of worms because it will never close.

[Dutchling]

Do you want to know what bugs me? The America wrong or wrong, perspective. Would you like to know the benefits of America taking her place as a global superpower? Spending a metric crapton on directly rebuilding Europe? Like not "we'll loan you money" or "we'll have American business build shit" but "take our fucking money and unfuck yourselves, please." Look into the Marshal plan. After that, we've got America providing the primary force behind NATO, and if you want to claim that a direct counterweight to the USSR wasn't necessary after WWII, than you've got some serious problems that simple reason won't help. We've got funding the UN, what good that does. Eh, shall I go on?


Ninja'd Note: Yeah, We've fucked up as a country. Every fucking country in history has fucked up when they've been the super/hyper power. What do you expect? We're not perfect, but we damn well try to do the best that we can.

Urist asked what America did wrong and I gave him a few examples. If he asked what america has done good I would given him the same examples you just gave. I'm not pro-american but I am certainly not anti-american!

EDIT: Hypothetically (and unethically) speaking, the income of Holland was like 50% based on colonial income and it was the USA that forced us to give them their freedom, which sucked economy wise. And helping to free Europa is of course great but what happened to Poland after the war? They helped in the war as well and got pretty fucked up. The cold war was also based upon the fact that the USSR and America did not trust each other. Hiring former-Nazis as spied didn't really helped building trust between the two countries because most of their information was false. I've seen a documentary about those spies and they gave a lot of false information about the USSR so the Americans though the (russians) were plotting something so they would keep their spies.

Of course, colonies are unethical and just plain bad, and the USSR was a great threat no matter what. Believe me, I'm not anti-american but I'm certainly not pro-american!

[Zangi]

Does that somehow exonerate America?  Sure, I admit some good comes of it, but does that outweigh the bad it perpetuates in its attempts to further its goals?

Also, the Pirates were all up in their trade lanes jacking their trade...  Or something like that.

What bad has America perpetrated.

Propping up Dictators that put down their own people, because they 'support' American foreign interests.  And we see some of the long term effects of that policy now.

Rhetoric on the UN? America is one of the 5 that can Veto decisions down.  Also... "Don't look into my shit too closely or I'll defund you."  That is some significant decision power right there.
There is also the "Don't look into Israel's shit too closely."

Yea, 'stability' of allies is a priority, can't have them messing their own stuff up, cause it'll probably mean someone hostile/non-friendly to American foreign interests could take power.  Both Democratic and Autocratic.