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[Damien White]

I didnt find anything with the search option, so big sorry, if someone already got this idea.


Everyone knows the problem that occurs in later years. 90% of your dwarfes sit around have nothing to do and you only get farming related Jobs with your migrants. My idea to solve these three problems is some sort of school system:

Minimum requirements for a school:

7x10 room
11 thrones
11 tables
4 chests

WWWWWWWWWWWW
W[][][][][][][][][][] W
W[][] C T[] C T[][]HW
W[][] C T[] C T[][]HW
D[][] C T[] C T[]T CW
W[][] C T[] C T[][]HW
W[][] C T[] C T[][]HW
W[][][][][][][][][][] W
WWWWWWWWWWWW

Hot to create?
Select the red Chair, make a room and set it to school instead of study. This will indicate, where the teacher stays.

How does it work?
You asign the chair to one dwarf with a high level in something (for example an expert brewer). Now he walks into the schoolroom and dwarfes or children with no job may join him or you asign specific chairs to specific dwarfes. The main labor of the dwarf you choose as teacher (in this example farming related) becoms the topic of his lessons. He then teaches all the dwarfes the basics of farming related Jobs with some focus on his sub labor (brewing).


With this you will get:

1. No rusty dwarfes.
2. In long terms god dwarfes for your mega projects. For example, you wont have the jobs to get 10 or 15 legendary masons, with a school you get an infinite Ammount of god Masons (depending of the size of your school) on standby for your 100z-level Tower of Doom.
3. No dwarfes wich idle 24/7 (so no bad thought because of this)
4. Your dwarfes stay inside your fortress if they got no jobs

What do you think about this? Any ideas, suggestions?

[Milarki]

It is a great idea. It would certainly help to upgrade the skill levels of the dwarves.

[bp1986]

Really like this idea, but I have a few ideas I would like to add...

When defining the room, you would assign the teacher to the room just like how you assigned a bedroom for it. If noone is assigned to the room, any bored dwarf may take up teaching.

The subject should be declaired much how farming works right now... define a subject for the season (or week?). If no subject is picked, the assigned teacher (or bored dwarf who desires to be a teacher) will just teach whatever skill is the highest.

As for students, I am a bit unsure on how to handle them. I know they should not gain knowledge past the teacher (probably -2 from the teacher max). Maybe only allow dwarfs to be students if they are a child or have the student labor turned on or perhaps any dwarfs with nothing better to do will show up or maybe the student should have to have the skill in question turned on in order to attend? Maybe handle this with the (o)rders menu?

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

Just use the same teaching system that's used by military skills, I'd say. And yeah, I'd love to have some classroom thing. Especially the bored random dorf teaching others random stuff part.

[harborpirate]

This should happen automatically at the current meeting area. Unoccupied dwarves with high skills should teach others with nothing to do and with less skill than themselves. This would follow the model of ancient times where there wasn't a formal school (other than apprenticeships) but rather  informal meetings where knowledge was shared.
I'm not sure how I feel about the player having any control over it. It feels more authentic if it was out of player control but if it were added as an option that would be fine - I'd just ignore it and let teaching play out on its own.

[harborpirate]

This would also allow for a key change in how jobs work in DF - preventing unskilled dwarves from working skilled job types. For instance, a dwarf with no experience at all should not be able to brew, or craft, or sew, or train animals, or do medical tasks, things like that. Mining, sure. Hunting maybe. Cleaning, hauling, absolutely.

Teaching would allow your dwarves to work skilled jobs that they didn't start out with.

This would also give the philosopher a purpose - to show up and hog the teaching slot in order to force players to use apprenticeships in the later game.

[Naryar]

I think for more realism, four methods of teaching should be implemented:

- Classical school setup, one dwarf teaching children/peasants in their work. Obviously would be capped at a certain level.
- Discussion about work when dwarves talk together. Would work more slowly than other methods.
- Children/peasants watching another, more skilled, dwarf at work. The dwarf at work should be working more slowly for learning's sake.
- A more skilled dwarf tutoring the work of a less skilled dwarf. More skilled dwarf gets teacher experience, less skilled dwarf gets MORE experience from it's work due to the guidance of the better dwarf.

Obviously, dwarves with less focus, achievement striving and analytical ability would gain less from teaching, and selfish/asocial dwarves would refuse to teach anyone.

[RTiger]

With nothing else to do, your dwarves automatically train social skills. If you want to train a skill, have a dwarf use that skill. For me, I make sure only a handful of non nobles have lots of downtime. If nothing else, I put everyone into crafts or farming.

[harborpirate]

Interesting turn of words there "classical school setup". One thing I'm not familiar with is how far back what we think of as a traditional free school system for children actually goes. Googling/wikipedia didn't turn up useful results for me, maybe someone with knowledge in this area or stronger google-fu can enlighten us? I have this strong suspicion that access to free education for everyone doesn't go back too far. Somehow a medieval schoolhouse seems very anachronistic to me, but I could be totally off base.

[Deepblade]

I think the first really formal schooling would be what we consider tutoring now. Nobles would hire people to teach their kids about politics, or whatever they pleased. But, apprenticeships and the conversing of 2, or more, skilled craftsmen in their art have been around, presumably, since the dawn of time. I'm not sure how guilds will work, but hopefully the guild will set up apprenticeships of a lesser skilled person with someone who is accomplished in their skill. teaching them up to a max of expert perhaps.

Kids should hang around with their parents & learn their craft as well, Trade secrets being passed down from parent to child is very realistic I think. & perhaps if your legendary smith is teaching his apprentice & his child at the same time the child could grow jealous & hate that person, form a close bond with them as they learn side by side, or a rivalry & try to out do each other.

But, I'm fairly new to the forums & my ideas are kinda grand & not thought out at times.

[Sutremaine]

For instance, a dwarf with no experience at all should not be able to brew, or craft, or sew, or train animals, or do medical tasks, things like that. Mining, sure. Hunting maybe. Cleaning, hauling, absolutely.

You'd need to have books available from the traders to give the fortress a legup for skills it doesn't possess at all.

[harborpirate]

I think the first really formal schooling would be what we consider tutoring now. Nobles would hire people to teach their kids about politics, or whatever they pleased. But, apprenticeships and the conversing of 2, or more, skilled craftsmen in their art have been around, presumably, since the dawn of time. I'm not sure how guilds will work, but hopefully the guild will set up apprenticeships of a lesser skilled person with someone who is accomplished in their skill. teaching them up to a max of expert perhaps.

Kids should hang around with their parents & learn their craft as well, Trade secrets being passed down from parent to child is very realistic I think. & perhaps if your legendary smith is teaching his apprentice & his child at the same time the child could grow jealous & hate that person, form a close bond with them as they learn side by side, or a rivalry & try to out do each other.

But, I'm fairly new to the forums & my ideas are kinda grand & not thought out at times.

Apprenticeships fit the game, no question at all there. Tutoring, in certain cases (especially nobility), we know for sure that has historical precedent. As do informal or semi-formal meetings where adults gather to learn from one another (that goes back to at least ancient Greece).

I'm just digging into the idea whether a school in the modern sense (especially for children) is something that's been around long enough to fit within the game.

[Damien White]

I primarly wanted to use the school to keep my dwarfes busy and to enable some sort of message simmilar to "Urist got satisfied at work recently" like "Urist got satisfied at school recently" so my idle dwarfes dont get bad thougts.

They never should become legendary in something, I would suggest in the main labor (Farming etc.) 3 levels below the teacher and in the sub labor (Brewing etc) 2 levels below the teacher at best and only after one year teaching. Already legendary Students should remain legendary, here the school keeps them "fit" so they wont get "rusty".

- Children watching another, more skilled, dwarf at work.

I thougt this already happens O.o

[Deepblade]

- Children watching another, more skilled, dwarf at work.

I thougt this already happens O.o

I've never seen a child come into adult hood more than just a peasant is what I mean.

Kinda like to see that child who was constantly hanging around my legendary armor smith to be a little skilled with his armor smithing because of all those hours watching him hammer away.
Course, if that already does happen & I'm just lack the attention to see it ignore me >.>

[Damien White]

They dont become legendary, but the childs become the job of their parents wich they hang around O.o