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[Kravick]

After doing several searches and reading several posts about this issue, I still can't seem to find what I am looking for.  What I really want is to be able to embark on a sedimentary layer.  Usually I'd just embark on Limestone and all my needs would be met.  Unfortunately the embark screen has changed and it no longer tells you what kind of stone is there.  I haven't played for a while so I am a little behind on the updates.  The site finder and new embark screens tell me flux and shallow metals are present but every time I embark all I ever see is gabbro and microcline.  The flux it mentions is marble all the way at the bottom of the map (DFreveal).  All I wanna do is find limestone.   

I've genned multiple worlds at both 500 scarcity, 1000 scarcity, and the default 2500 scarcity.  Using the following parameters set to shallow metals: multiple (I assume this means I might find iron?), flux to yes, and aquifers to no, all I ever find is gabbro with no metals near the surface once I embark.  Is the site finder broken or is there something I am missing?  I just want my limestone back.

[Sutremaine]

The flux it mentions is marble all the way at the bottom of the map (DFreveal).

Dwarf up, dig down.

Unfortunately, sedimentary flux tends to accompany aquifers. If you dislike aquifers, they're pretty easy to mod out.

[Kravick]

The flux it mentions is marble all the way at the bottom of the map (DFreveal).

Dwarf up, dig down.

Unfortunately, sedimentary flux tends to accompany aquifers. If you dislike aquifers, they're pretty easy to mod out.

Theres still the annoying problem of iron being in mostly sedimentary layers.  How do you even find any sedimentary layer now?

[Minnakht]

How? You embark on biomes which should have any. Not volcanoes, but rather... forests, savannae, that kind of places.

[dirty foot]

It sounds like you might be having the same problem I am also having.

My issue is linked to a desperate need for a volcano in each embark I choose. I tend to get a lot of metamorphic and igneous (both types), and for the obvious reasons. I've just given up on iron ores, and started using traps for goblin killing, since the military portion of this game is glitchier than an old Commodore 64 game, and the units are more dense than an Alaskan governor.

[Minnakht]

Just dig deeper, magma is everywhere...

And if you worldgen correctly, it's only 50-60ish z-levels away.

[Kravick]

How? You embark on biomes which should have any. Not volcanoes, but rather... forests, savannae, that kind of places.

How... undwarvenly!

But seriously, I usually embark at the base of mountains.  Before the change you could easily find sediment layers at the base of mountains.  Now?  Not so much.  Still, I guess its a small sacrifice I'll just have to put up with for now.  I can always make a semi above ground fortress instead of digging straight into the side of a mountain.  That is if it works.  I'll try finding a suitable forest location and see whats there.

EDIT: Meh, this has to be some kind of bad joke.  4 more embarks in the middle of a forest and all I get is metamorphic layers.  Not even a possibility for iron, let alone flux.  Seriously need to be able to see what kind of stone is in the area from embark.  This is ridiculous.

[46852]

... since the military portion of this game is glitchier than an old Commodore 64 game, and the units are more dense than an Alaskan governor.

Don't know much about Alaskan governors being dense, but hey, old Commodore 64 games didn't have glitches!



PS. Oh wait, what's Sarah Palin's density, can I find it in the raws?

[Saiko Kila]

Somehow I had no problem with finding sedimentary layers when embarking for my first fortress recently. I've spent 40 minutes looking for a spot though, mainly because search filter take so much time. I was looking for jungle (to get much wood), calm environments, no aquifers, soil (I've chosen deep soil location manually), flux stone, deep metals and river (manually without search filter that one) and three biomes, which accidentally were virtually the same. I got ideally what I wanted. Nice hill to the west, nice river (4 tiles width) to the east, two or so layers of soil, and mostly dolomite layers below, with tons of limonite. Only problem I have is I didn't get any coal, but with plenty of wood it's not so big deal. I think that flux stone is the key, because it is sedimentary.

[UberNube]

Yeah. I agree with the OP that I would really like to see the old layer screen back, or even better an improved version* which is a hybrid of the two.

As it stands the last ~5 games I've played the map has been completely devoid of iron and/or flux so a decent steel industry has been out of the question. I really just want to be able to tell the region generator to force an area to have: river, deep soil, sedimentary layer with lots of iron, flux, sand and some interesting caverns. The whole world map is great in theory, but when you need to generate 2 or 3 worlds just to find a suitable site for your next fortress design it is more a hindrance than a benefit. It is even more annoying when you realise that once you embark the world outside your fortress has no real effect on gameplay and can be reduced to maybe 10 values: weather patterns, civ access, civ proximity (goblin attack frequency and caravan arrival times, etc), ... actually I think that's it. I know that it will be improved with the trade an military arcs, but for now it just seems a bit overkill and ends up just getting in the way of fun. I don't think it should be removed by any means, but I disagree with any changes which reduce the available information about the resources available at a site for the sake of realism.

* Here's an idea I thought of for the layers screen. I like that it lists only interesting stuff such as flux and 'metals', but I would prefer a bit more detail. As such, it should display something like this:

=========
4 Soil (SAND, AQUIFER)
5 Sedimentary (FLUX, METAL)
17 Igneous Intrusive (METAL)
8 Metamorphic (FLUX)
12 Igneous Intrusive
=========

In this case the various tags (SAND, FLUX, METALS, etc) would be specified by raw tags of the form [LAYER_DISPLAY:<NAME>] where name is what would be SAND, FLUX, METAL, etc. The numbers next to the layers indicate depth, though this could be varied to be anything from tags like 'SHALLOW ', '', 'DEEP ' etc to exact z-level counts.

I should probably actually post this in the suggestions forum at some point.

[RTiger]

They removed what is actually there to make things harder. You can always muck around with the worldgen and volcanism in the chance to find more iron.

For the moment, I am dealing with a very fun embark.

I have nickel, lead, tin, copper, gold, silver, and adamantine, but no Iron   Other times, I find iron, but no flux. 

Just have a look around when you start an embark. You can often get a good idea of what to expect just by looking around.

[UberNube]

They removed what is actually there to make things harder. You can always muck around with the worldgen and volcanism in the chance to find more iron.

For the moment, I am dealing with a very fun embark.

I have nickel, lead, tin, copper, gold, silver, and adamantine, but no Iron   Other times, I find iron, but no flux. 

Just have a look around when you start an embark. You can often get a good idea of what to expect just by looking around.

I don't imagine they would remove something like that simply to boost the difficulty, since it doesn't really make it harder, it just makes it less fun. If I want to I can still make cage traps using only wood and stone to catch anything sub-FB, and by that point I could also have walled off most of the caverns so FB's wouldn't be a threat. I would then have a 99.9% safe fortress without using ANY metal (of course going down this route the next stage is simply to seal your entrance and become self-sufficient (and invincible (nested brackets FTW))).

As it stands, the military is optional, so any changes which make it harder to have a powerful military are simply an annoyance to people who want to actually use the military. As it stands without at least iron armor the military is entirely useless against sieges, so it comes down to a choice of either equip them with adamantine gear (which CAN be mined safely btw), or rely on traps. I prefer traps myself, but even then I feel like I'm missing out without a good steel industry.

I suppose this comes down to the two main types of players: Those whose objective is to survive in a hostile environment, and those who prefer to thrive in a less-hostile one. I would like all possible options available to me where I embark, so I am free to do whatever I want.

[Jeoshua]

I don't imagine they would remove something like that simply to boost the difficulty, since it doesn't really make it harder, it just makes it less fun.

snip

As it stands, the military is optional,

snip

I suppose this comes down to the two main types of players: Those whose objective is to survive in a hostile environment, and those who prefer to thrive in a less-hostile one.

And how long have you played DF again? Cause it seems like you're missing a few crucial elements.

Hard IS Fun.  So is Losing.  That's part of this game.
Most of DF (other than ideas and some assorted code) is made by one guy.  There is no "they" to remove things.
The "Shallow/Deep Metals" thing WAS put in to make the game harder, absolutely true.
And there is only one kind of DF player: Psychotic.

[Agent_86]

I LIKE the new embark system.  It makes it more fun (or FUN) to discover new layers as my dorfs dig down.

[Byakugan01]

They removed what is actually there to make things harder.

See, this is one thing that doesn't make sense to me. I assume the embarkation is from the perspective of a dwarven civ, and what you see are "site reports". Being as involved with the earth and stone as they are, it made SENSE to me that dwarves knew what the different stone types were.