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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress noob here.  (Read 4907 times)

Sting_Auer

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Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« on: April 10, 2011, 09:39:09 pm »

Hey all! I have figured out how to play, and am making a very good fort so far by applying my knowledge of Minecraft base design to my Dwarf Fortress bases, but i'm mostly a noob here, and I have a few questions regarding water wheels, wells, fortifications, floodgates, and mills/quern's.

I also have a few other general questions.

1.) If a water wheel is supplying excess power to a millstone, will the millstone work better, or the same?

2.) Does a millstone work better than a quern? I am guessing that it does, but I am not sure.

3.) can a floodgate be activated from a diagonal, in the same way that a square can be mined from a diagonal? (I am going to figure this one out on my own very shortly, but would still appreciate tips.)

4.) How exactly do I use fortifications? Do I need to make the fortification in a certain direction? If I place a fortification the wrong way, will attackers be able to shoot in, while I can't shoot out?

5.) Is it safe to make part of my city outside? I am talking about things such as millstones (so they can be next to my farms), and storage for cheaper materials.

6.) is a well required for me to get water when inside the fort? I have a river nearby, and am making an underground tunnel for water from that to flow into a room that supplies water to a well on the ground floor, and to farms on the floor that the water flows into. I am using a floodgate, so it isn't going to overflow.


Please answer these questions  :)


I'm having some trouble figuring them out on my own, even using the Wiki.

EDIT: CRAAAAAAAAAAP!!!


I was trying to make the tunnel for the well thing, and accidentally locked two of my dwarves in D:

They drowned! I tried to have them dig out a path so that they could survive, but they couldn't dig it out before the water got to them.


How can I make a tunnel like that without my dwarves drowning or flooding my base?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 09:48:34 pm by Sting_Auer »
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Thank you everyone for the help! I've since flooded the fortress I was working on and now have a new one going up.

Flare

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 09:53:42 pm »

1.) It will work the same.

2.) I think so, some people seem to think a dwarf can put in the wheat to be milled and walk away to do other stuff, while others think that it's faster than the quern.

3.) I have no idea what you are talking about.

4.) Fortifications are walls that can permit the passage of projectiles. However, unless the shooter is right next to the projectile, there exists a very big chance that the projectile will not make it through the fortification. Think of it as a hole in the wall that the dwarf can shoot through. It's much easier to shoot through when you're standing right next to the fortification rather than several metres away. Of course, there are entities in the DF universe that have the skill to shoot through such a hole from a ways away without much problem.

5.) Ideally, you want everything tucked away in a place where you can seal off in case of emergency.

6.)Wells are useful in situations where you have salt water, otherwise, simply marking the fresh water with the "i" command and then selecting water supply when you've created the region around the side of the water is enough.

Please answer these questions  :)

How about no?

How can I make a tunnel like that without my dwarves drowning or flooding my base?

Doors can stop water. But if they are ever opened, and if the water pressure on the other side is great enough, they seem to have a habit of coming off their hinges and deconstructing.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 09:56:32 pm by Flare »
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Sting_Auer

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 10:00:36 pm »


Please answer these questions  :)

How about no?



Wait...

wha...?

But... you did... answer the questions...

right?

Anyway, thanks for helping. Now that I know doors stop water flow, I can avoid killing my dwarves in my new save.


Oh, and to question three:

When you are having dwarves mine, you can have them dig away a rock like so:

[] = normal rock   () = rock to be dug   || = your dwarf


[][][]
[]||[]
[][]()


You can mine that that. I was wondering if you can activate a floodgate and other mechanisms (Is that right? I mean things like doors and whatnot) the same way.
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Naina

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 10:05:42 pm »

If by 'activate' you mean 'build' no, you cannot. Buildings must be done on the orthogonal.
If you just want your dwarves to walk through the square, yes, it will work
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 10:07:32 pm by Naina »
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Wyvern

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 10:15:43 pm »

You can mine that that. I was wondering if you can activate a floodgate and other mechanisms (Is that right? I mean things like doors and whatnot) the same way.
I'm not sure if you understand how basic mechanisms work.  You build a floodgate (or hatch or bridge or whatever).  Then you build a lever (which is in the "traps" menu and costs a mechanism).  Then you use the building menu to order the lever linked to the floodgate, and dwarves will go put a mechanism inside the floodgate and another one inside the lever.  Then every time the lever is pulled, the floodgate will raise or lower.  The distance between the lever and floodgate is irrelevant as long as a dwarf can initially path between them to do the linking, and they don't need to be powered.  Dwarves are incapable of operating floodgates or drawbridges by hand (unlike doors or hatch covers, which can be left un-mechanized to work normally or be linked to a lever/pressure plate to make them immovable except via the linked device, floodgates are basically just walls until you mechanize them).
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 10:20:18 pm by Wyvern »
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Sting_Auer

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 10:49:48 pm »

You can mine that that. I was wondering if you can activate a floodgate and other mechanisms (Is that right? I mean things like doors and whatnot) the same way.
I'm not sure if you understand how basic mechanisms work.  You build a floodgate (or hatch or bridge or whatever).  Then you build a lever (which is in the "traps" menu and costs a mechanism).  Then you use the building menu to order the lever linked to the floodgate, and dwarves will go put a mechanism inside the floodgate and another one inside the lever.  Then every time the lever is pulled, the floodgate will raise or lower.  The distance between the lever and floodgate is irrelevant as long as a dwarf can initially path between them to do the linking, and they don't need to be powered.  Dwarves are incapable of operating floodgates or drawbridges by hand (unlike doors or hatch covers, which can be left un-mechanized to work normally or be linked to a lever/pressure plate to make them immovable except via the linked device, floodgates are basically just walls until you mechanize them).

oh.


Well then.


Thank you! Now I know :3
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Thank you everyone for the help! I've since flooded the fortress I was working on and now have a new one going up.

Lytha

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 05:15:23 am »

1.) You could put more millstones next to the one to use the excess power. Or extend your water wheel power plant and use it to power both your millstone and your automatic magma pump stack. :)

2.) I prefer the querns at the moment, because I set up power plants really late. I.e. when the magma pump stack is already almost done. There might be a difference as of how much "milling" skillpoints the dwarves get for using a quern vs. a millstone. But the outcome is identical, anyway.

3.) I've never tried that, because the diagonal outflow past the floodgate would mean that the water/magma flows in very slowly past this pressure-breaker. Just try it yourself if your mechanic can approach the floodgate or not.

4.) Fortifications belong into 3 places.
- Part of your "critters stay outside!" design of your magma and cave water canals. Combine it with wall grates.
- The upper levels of your outer walls. You know, the walls on the inside of your moat. After a couple of years, you will probably want to have walls that are 2 z-levels high or more. Since you combine these higher levels with a 1 tile wide walkway, this is the ideal spot for archers of yours. Nobody from outside can shoot your cows and farmers, but the archers can shoot through them.
- Your shooting range for your marksman training. Naked goblins on one side, your archers on the other.

5.) Yes, with a moat, and a wall. Vultures and buzzard will still be able to get in, as well as flying titans. But it is more or less safe. Unless goblins can arrive on flying mounts during sieges? That would suck. :p

6.) You only need soil for the underground farms. Irrigation is not necessary anymore, that has been finally fixed in 31.22 or so.

A well is a nice thing to have. Place it near your hospital so that the dwarves who feed your injured dwarves don't have to walk all the way to the river. Also, dwarves will have baths near the well and be excited about it.


7.) Yes, but sometimes you need to keep a close eye on what the dwarves are doing. In your case, I would have tunneled the path to the river, installed floodgate and constructed floors (to prevent towercaps from growing in your canalization), installed a Wall Grate, a constructed wall and have dug a fortification into it. Then I would have sent in the miner on the ground level towards the river and just have channeled out that last tile between your floodgate/other means of keeping critters out. He would have done so without falling into the river, and your flooding project would have started to commence.

You also need to be wary of your dwarves walling themselves in during wall constructions. They prefer to stand to the north or to the west while constructing, and so it's easy for them to trap themselves. Just be aware of that and have an eye on them when you are building.

6.)

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wuphonsreach

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2011, 08:15:18 am »

5.) Yes, with a moat, and a wall. Vultures and buzzard will still be able to get in, as well as flying titans. But it is more or less safe. Unless goblins can arrive on flying mounts during sieges? That would suck. :p

Yes, goblins do arrive on flying mounts.  You can have entire squads on cave swallows or the like.  Which is why you always have layered defenses.  An outer meat grinder can be in open-air to take care of foot soldiers, but past that you need to force all invaders to pass through an area with a roof over the tile (which forces them down to within range of the inner trapps).

Quote
6.) You only need soil for the underground farms. Irrigation is not necessary anymore, that has been finally fixed in 31.22 or so.

Any underground area where the floor is made of clay / soil will grow underground crops without irrigation now.  But if you dig out a hard stone room, you still have to irrigate (which means flood water across the hard rock floor, then let it drain off).
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Sting_Auer

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 09:59:24 am »

Okay, now you guys are talking about stuff that I have no idea of...

I haven't encountered a siege yet (Most of my forts fail before reaching any more than 15 people)

I haven't even been attacked by anything yet. There was once a fox stealing some fish from my fishermen, but that was the worst that has happened so far.

I also can only really play on version 31.19. I used the same copy of windows to install on both my hard drives, so my computer OS is out of date. My KERNEL32 refuses to work hen I try to run any later versions that this. I have tried downloading up-to-date KERNEL's, but it won't let me copy them in. However, i am able to play the current version on my moms computer, so keep giving me tips about current versions as well. Just remember that I am usually playing this on version 31.19.
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Dutchling

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 10:28:07 am »

Okay, now you guys are talking about stuff that I have no idea of...

I haven't encountered a siege yet (Most of my forts fail before reaching any more than 15 people)

I haven't even been attacked by anything yet. There was once a fox stealing some fish from my fishermen, but that was the worst that has happened so far.
Civilization attacks come in 4 ways iirc.
1- Thief, this is just a thief and only kobolds sent them I think. He will flee if he is spotted but might injure a dwarf with his knife
2- baby snatcher. Only Goblins sent these (kobolds maybe? my world never have kobolds so I don't know) . They just steal children so they are not really dangerous to your fortress
3- Ambushes. Goblins sent them after a year (usually later). elfs sent them if you are at war with them and Kobolds if they have stolen a lot of stuff. I do not know about Humans but I guess they work the same as elfs. Ambushes are invisible until spotted so you really need a military / traps or a sealed of fortress.
4- Sieges. Goblin sent them if you'r population reaches 80 and elves and humans if you are at war. They are visible unlike ambushes. If you do not want to fight them just seal of your fortress and wait <year for them to leave. siegers may come on mounts and these mounts may be able to swim or fly.

also things in the caverns can try to kill you but in an unmodded game the first cavern is totally harmless imo
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EmperorJon

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 10:44:52 am »

Quote
first cavern is totally harmless imo

FBs.
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Sting_Auer

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 11:05:41 am »

Oh, and about forgotten beasts:

I keep getting randomly spaced out "A part of the cavern has collapsed" messages from the same place. I have never been to that area, so I am wondering if there is a forgotten beast down there destroying stuff and causing small cave-ins. Is that possible?

Also, if I encounter a forgotten beast that is just simply physically powerful, but has few special affects - things like blood that poisons my soldiers - am I able to just go Gandalf on it and beat the crap out of it with my best warriors? Or would it be easier to simply trap it in a room somewhere and leave it alone?


EDIT: How do I stop the frequent cavern collapse messages? It keeps pausing my game and I can't figure out how to stop it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 11:10:49 am by Sting_Auer »
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wuphonsreach

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 11:13:00 am »

Also, if I encounter a forgotten beast that is just simply physically powerful, but has few special affects - things like blood that poisons my soldiers - am I able to just go Gandalf on it and beat the crap out of it with my best warriors? Or would it be easier to simply trap it in a room somewhere and leave it alone?

Well, the easiest way to deal with FBs in the caverns is to build rooms into the rock pillars where you have a good 10-15 view with few obstructions.  Put the rooms 1Z level above the cavern floor at that location if possible.  Smooth the outer wall, then carve fortifications into the outer wall.  When the FB paths near that location, use the (s)quad menu to move your marksdwarves to that room.

Free marksdwarf training, zero risk.

Bonus points if you kill the FB when it's out in 7/7 water.  That way if it does have nasty-happy blood that spreads via contact, it's out there in the deep water where your dwarves won't go.
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Sting_Auer

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 11:15:11 am »

Also, if I encounter a forgotten beast that is just simply physically powerful, but has few special affects - things like blood that poisons my soldiers - am I able to just go Gandalf on it and beat the crap out of it with my best warriors? Or would it be easier to simply trap it in a room somewhere and leave it alone?

Well, the easiest way to deal with FBs in the caverns is to build rooms into the rock pillars where you have a good 10-15 view with few obstructions.  Put the rooms 1Z level above the cavern floor at that location if possible.  Smooth the outer wall, then carve fortifications into the outer wall.  When the FB paths near that location, use the (s)quad menu to move your marksdwarves to that room.

Free marksdwarf training, zero risk.

Bonus points if you kill the FB when it's out in 7/7 water.  That way if it does have nasty-happy blood that spreads via contact, it's out there in the deep water where your dwarves won't go.

But don't FB's drop very large amounts of meat if they are made of flesh? I would think that I should kill it while in shallower, flowing water, so that I could harvest it after the nasty stuff flows away.
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Nameless Archon

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Re: Dwarf Fortress noob here.
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 11:27:43 am »

Also, if I encounter a forgotten beast that is just simply physically powerful, but has few special affects - things like blood that poisons my soldiers - am I able to just go Gandalf on it and beat the crap out of it with my best warriors? Or would it be easier to simply trap it in a room somewhere and leave it alone?

Well, the easiest way to deal with FBs in the caverns is to build rooms into the rock pillars where you have a good 10-15 view with few obstructions.  Put the rooms 1Z level above the cavern floor at that location if possible.  Smooth the outer wall, then carve fortifications into the outer wall.  When the FB paths near that location, use the (s)quad menu to move your marksdwarves to that room.

Free marksdwarf training, zero risk.

Bonus points if you kill the FB when it's out in 7/7 water.  That way if it does have nasty-happy blood that spreads via contact, it's out there in the deep water where your dwarves won't go.

But don't FB's drop very large amounts of meat if they are made of flesh? I would think that I should kill it while in shallower, flowing water, so that I could harvest it after the nasty stuff flows away.
Relying on deadly extracts to flow away is like playing Russian roulette with six loaded chambers and a full speedloader waiting in the wings.
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