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[Lagslayer]

I'm astounded by people's ability to read my whole post. Really, I am.

If by "people" you mean "me," I'll just note that I read your whole post and will throw out, once again, the good old statement that variation among sexes is greater than variation between sexes.

But hey.  Whatever.  Say I didn't read--that's up to you <3

Once again, testosterone is a highly important hormone to weight training. Since women do not produce nearly as much they cannot lift weights to the equal of men. I do not get why you can't except this.

Once again, you have this "all women" "all men" dichotomy going on.  Gender is a social construct.  Deal with it, and move on.

You and DJ, actually.

[Willfor]

These women don't exist.

[Darvi]

I do not get why you insist that only testosterone spewing men are supposed to be in the army.

Once again, testosterone is a highly important hormone to weight training. Since women do not produce nearly as much they cannot lift weights to the equal of men. I do not get why you can't except this.

Read this and try again.

Nope. Weight lifting has pretty much nothing to do with the military. As long as you can carry around that backpack for a certain period you're good to go afaik.

[Urist is dead tome]

I later posted lower weights.

No you did not.

You are saying that the army should have as a minim requirement to almost match, or in some cases go past, the Olympic records.

Have you read the past pages at all? Not only did  post lower weights but the lifts weren't even Olympic.

Your last page with numbers:

A good minimum amount of strength would be 300 pound squat, 400 pound deadlift, 200 pound bench and 150(?) pound press. These are all very achievable goals especially for healthy lads like the infantry.

In kilos these would be 136.4 kg, 181.8 kg,90.9 kg, and 68.2 kg in the same order of appearance.

Which yeah, is on the low end of the Olympic records.

Once again, testosterone is a highly important hormone to weight training. Since women do not produce nearly as much they cannot lift weights to the equal of men. I do not get why you can't except this.

The point, that you have never addressed, is that is for average women. For the ones that can 'cut it' what reason do you have for keeping them out? Cause it is not that.

Those aren't even Olympic lifts and not even close to world records. I have already stated quite early in the thread why, go back and read.

I do not get why you insist that only testosterone spewing men are supposed to be in the army.

Once again, testosterone is a highly important hormone to weight training. Since women do not produce nearly as much they cannot lift weights to the equal of men. I do not get why you can't except this.

Read this and try again.

Nope. Weight lifting has pretty much nothing to do with the military. As long as you can carry around that backpack for a certain period you're good to go afaik.

Read the past pages as this has been covered.

[Darvi]

Not really. You think that bodybuilding=>military and women !=> bodybuilding, hence women !=> military.

Also, your standards are far too high. If a woman passes the test to join the military, she can join. Period.

[olemars]

Urist, instead of constructing up painfully contrived justifications, wouldn't it be easier to simply admit you don't want women in the military just because they are women? That's what the last few pages worth reads like to me. Particularly the following giant leap of an exchange:

Yep, but even if women are on average weaker than men, a lot of women are strong enough to do that. Why shouldn't they be allowed to serve?

Because Muslim extremists pretty much never surrender to women. And in this kind of war we need to interrogate people to get information.

[DJ]

I reckon that only 10% of women are fit for infantry, while with men it's around 70%. That's still no reason to bar entry to those 10%.

[Urist is dead tome]

Not really. You think that bodybuilding=>military and women !=> bodybuilding, hence women !=> military.

Also, your standards are far too high. If a woman passes the test to join the military, she can join. Period.

I'm not saying she can't join. When have I shown this logic?

Urist, instead of constructing up painfully contrived justifications, wouldn't it be easier to simply admit you don't want women in the military just because they are women? That's what the last few pages worth reads like to me. Particularly the following giant leap of an exchange:

Yep, but even if women are on average weaker than men, a lot of women are strong enough to do that. Why shouldn't they be allowed to serve?

Because Muslim extremists pretty much never surrender to women. And in this kind of war we need to interrogate people to get information.

Yes, yes it would.

[Urist is dead tome]

I reckon that only 10% of women are fit for infantry, while with men it's around 70%. That's still no reason to bar entry to those 10%.

This. I agree with this guy here.

[Darvi]

Not really. You think that bodybuilding=>military and women !=> bodybuilding, hence women !=> military.

Also, your standards are far too high. If a woman passes the test to join the military, she can join. Period.

I'm not saying she can't join. When have I shown this logic?

Pretty much anytime you said that only men are strong enough blablabla.

I reckon that only 10% of women are fit for infantry, while with men it's around 70%. That's still no reason to bar entry to those 10%.

This. I agree with this guy here.

Then say so instead of saying why women shouldn't. Because frankly there's tons of guys whom that applies too.

[Criptfeind]

Those aren't even Olympic lifts and not even close to world records. I have already stated quite early in the thread why, go back and read.

Funny thing. I can click a little button and see all your posts right in a row. You are blatantly lying right now.

Also, funny about the fact you still are just straight up ignoring the second point that, surprise surprise, not everyone is the exact same and some to many women can already get the needed fitness.

I reckon that only 10% of women are fit for infantry, while with men it's around 70%. That's still no reason to bar entry to those 10%.

This. I agree with this guy here.

Although the percentages are ridicules, what the hell have you been arguing then?

[Vector]

This is fucking stupid.

Let me make this clear.  You argue that women should not be allowed in the infantry because there's no way they could meet your desired weight-lifting standards.  Okay--whatever.  I know nothing about the infantry.  I know nothing about weight-lifting.

What I do have a problem with is that you're making this about women.  Make it about your insane standards.  I don't give a crap where you put that line, because again, I know nothing about it.  What I have a problem with is your apparent decision that these standards specifically outlaw women, rather than that they outlaw a lot of people and women might happen to be a good large part of that group.  As I said, I do somewhat agree with Nikov's argument, or at the very least I'm not sure about it.  But if you decide it's about entrance exams, decide it's about entrance exams, for better or for worse, whether women end up fighting or not.

The question you need to ask yourself is this:

If a women could meet those standards--a theoretical woman, perhaps naturally gifted, perhaps not, who even gives a crap anymore--would you let her in?  Forget logistics.  Forget all of that.  Just ask yourself, honestly, whether this is about weight-lifting or if it is about women.  It seems that you are arguing to exclude women more than you are arguing for higher standards in general, simply because they are marked as women.

And, as we all know, language is arbitrary... so address what's there, rather than what is usually there (or what you want to be there), and stop making assumptions that are going to kick you in the face.

[Urist is dead tome]

Not really. You think that bodybuilding=>military and women !=> bodybuilding, hence women !=> military.

Also, your standards are far too high. If a woman passes the test to join the military, she can join. Period.

I'm not saying she can't join. When have I shown this logic?

Pretty much anytime you said that only men are strong enough blablabla.

My entire point was that most women aren't strong enough and won't be able to successfully train for it.

Those aren't even Olympic lifts and not even close to world records. I have already stated quite early in the thread why, go back and read.

Funny thing. I can click a little button and see all your posts right in a row. You are blatantly lying right now.

Also, funny about the fact you still are just straight up ignoring the second point that, surprise surprise, not everyone is the exact same and some to many women can already get the needed fitness.

I reckon that only 10% of women are fit for infantry, while with men it's around 70%. That's still no reason to bar entry to those 10%.

This. I agree with this guy here.

Although the percentages are ridicules, what the hell have you been arguing then?

Go back and read my post in which I stated my views. I would prefer that women not be in the military. But I can't have my way there. When have I lied, you're just slinging mud now.

[Vector]

Since you seem to be ignoring all of my posts, I'm out of here.  Maybe I need a male-identified sockpuppet.

[Darvi]

PM me what you want to say