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[Darvi]

Maybe it's because guys like to use pissoirs, and women don't have to look at our junk that way?

[Urist is dead tome]

So I suppose you've got a detailed study showing the relative likelihood of a Muslim extremist surrendering to a man and an equally wellbuilt, threatening woman, then?

Except a woman would almost certainly not be equally well built.

The Marine Corps infantry has to carry on average one-hundred pounds. Strength is even more important than it used to be. What about carrying a pack then an IED goes off? You have to pick up a 135 pound (that is the bare minimum. Any Marine who weighs this much should seriously put on some muscle), man (or woman), and carry them to safety. Usually you will be carrying much heavier people, too.

So yeah, strength is hugely relevant.

So? What is the problem exactly? My mother can carry 110 pounds sandbag and she's 62. Both sisters of mine have trained with the para and they are civilian (they were prety heavily into martial arts when they were younger). Sorry to disrupt your testosterone filled dream but 135 pounds is not an huge problem for a well exercised girl. And neither is 150.

Quote from: Phmcw on Today at 07:10:08 am

    Anyway, women that join the military know the risks. They are big enough to decide for or against going into combat units, your very patronizing for their own well being is incredibly sexist. And Urist is dead tome, don't assume anything about my agenda or don't be surprised when people assume things about yours.


Sorry about how that came out but you really seem to dislike America. Loudly.

Nope I pointed out a pretty strong problem that have your army. You may not like to hear about it but it's not  exactly and obscure or undocumented issue, and having more women among your rank could really help to clear it out.

If 135 isn't a problem what about 180? 200? Lets go for 200 and then add the weight of the equipment and we get a solid 300.

The military needs to be stronger and women cannot lift weights as successfully as men. Either have segregated gender platoons or inject these women with enough testosterone to grow a beard.

[Darvi]

Uh, I can hardly carry 150 pounds <_<

[Leafsnail]

Except a woman would almost certainly not be equally well built.

...Except that to pass the army's entrance requirement and training, you would be.  This seems to be something you haven't grasped.

And that's not even relevant - you've made a baseless assertion and refused to provide any evidence to back it up.

[Burnt Pies]

Still missing those Citations, Urist. Without them, almost all of your objections are coming off as childish, sexist rants.

[Urist is dead tome]

Except a woman would almost certainly not be equally well built.

...Except that to pass the army's entrance requirement and training, you would be.  This seems to be something you haven't grasped.

And that's not even relevant - you've made a baseless assertion and refused to provide any evidence to back it up.

There aren't citations needed here. An average man will usually be bigger than a woman. Even if both lift weights with the same frequency the man will probably be bigger. This is because men have increased testosterone.

[Darvi]

Except that any woman who can join the army will be at least just as fit as your average guy. If not more.

And hmm, no. You still need sources.

[Urist is dead tome]

Except that any woman who can join the army will be at least just as fit as your average guy. If not more.

Try to avoid the word "fit" because its meaning varies so widely.

[Zangi]

My stance:
If they make the cut for wherever they are joining.  They should make it.
If they do not make the cut, then they should not make it, like any other man.  No preferential treatment.

As for the manly men's military culture?  It could be taken down a notch... but on a going forward basis.  At least the way I see it.  What we have already integrated will not easily change.  Though, considering it is the old culture that will be the ones implementing the way forward...
"Change is bad when things are working for you.  Why change what works?"

Also, on Israel and UK implementation of women in combat...?  It can be construed as very disrespectful that you would break rank over an injured female comrade and not an injured male comrade... 
That reaction, clearly says that you do not respect 'her' enough to not treat her as you would any other male comrade.  How can you say you are a part of the team, when you get treated better then the other maggots?
Socially ingrained reaction I suppose...

[Puzzlemaker]

Yes Urist is dead tome, you are absolutely right.  Woman are weaker then men.  Therefore, we shouldn't allow woman to fight; that's a job for the stronger Men.  Woman have also better language skills, so we should leave them at home to raise and teach children.  That seems like the way nature intended it to be.  Hell, lets just have woman handle all domestic matter, and have men handle all grunt work and fighting.  Ban men from politics I say!  Woman are far more suited for it!  The world would be a much better place if woman ran it!

[Darvi]

Hmmm. *browses for german politics*

[Willfor]

Urist, there is a metric to determine whether someone is fit enough to join the Army. Anyone who passes is considered fit enough to join the army. This the mark the military considers to be acceptable. Women who are in the military right now have passed this mark. Any woman who wants to join has to pass this mark.

It is in place right now. It is working. It is the mark that all of your arguments seem to leave out.

Please adjust your worldview to include the fact that women have passed this mark, as half the people in this thread have been trying to convey to you, and seem to be failing at.

[Urist is dead tome]

Urist, there is a metric to determine whether someone is fit enough to join the Army. Anyone who passes is considered fit enough to join the army. This the mark the military considers to be acceptable. Women who are in the military right now have passed this mark. Any woman who wants to join has to pass this mark.

It is in place right now. It is working. It is the mark that all of your arguments seem to leave out.

Please adjust your worldview to include the fact that women have passed this mark, as half the people in this thread have been trying to convey to you, and seem to be failing at.

You misconstrue my point, lad. I was suggesting to Darvi not to use the word "fit" in this situation because the meaning varies to much. And once again, this isn't about whether women should be in the army or not but the infantry.

[Phmcw]

Anyway, yes, some women can do it. But this thread is boring. We're not really discussing, it' jus yet another debate against the conservative (Goro, Urist and Nikov) . The outcome of this thread was so completely previsible, with the "all women are weak" "women must be protected" and "it's for their own good" argument while everyone else is pointing the obvious that it's not even fun.

So let's summarise one last time then I'm out of here.

"Women will be targeted first to lure men". Why should it even work? You won't want to help your friend if he is used as a lure? Don't be a dumbass and don't fall for the trick, it will stop, eventually. And you should be aiming at the officier and/or Radio first.

"Women will get raped by the enemy" They know what they are doing, nobody forced them to enlist. And well, torture is never fun.

"Women will get raped by our own soldiers". It's sad news for the state of your society and your army. You should do something about it instead of banning women.

"Women are weaker than men". Make them pass the same test than men. Problem solved.

"Women are more emotional" What is this, the 1800's?

[Urist is dead tome]

Anyway, yes, some women can do it. But this thread is boring. We're not really discussing, it' jus yet another debate against the conservative (Goro, Urist and Nikov) . The outcome of this thread was so completely previsible, with the "all women are weak" "women must be protected" and "it's for their own good" argument while everyone else is pointing the obvious that it's not even fun.

So let's summarise one last time then I'm out of here.

"Women will be targeted first to lure men". Why should it even work? You won't want to help your friend if he is used as a lure? Don't be a dumbass and don't fall for the trick, it will stop, eventually. And you should be aiming at the officier and/or Radio first.

"Women will get raped by the enemy" They know what they are doing, nobody forced them to enlist. And well, torture is never fun.

"Women will get raped by our own soldiers". It's sad news for the state of your society and your army. You should do something about it instead of banning women.

"Women are weaker than men". Make them pass the same test than men. Problem solved.

"Women are more emotional" What is this, the 1800's?

This post added nothing new. I've even said I would be fine if they were held to the same standards. And as earlier stated women are more likely to be more emotional because of the higher amounts of estrogen. Overall you seem to go into threads and make announcements about what America's problems are and give a shining beam of intelligence into the land of cavemen. But that's just how I, an American sees it.

Once again, I think the military is not strong enough. Sure they're "fit" (but that's a whole new can of worms), but they aren't strong enough. I would a say 600 pound deadlift, five hundred pound squat, and a 300 pound bench press and a body weight of about two hundred pounds would be excellent goals. But once again, women cannot lift weights as successfully as men. Because of this it would be very difficult and time consuming to get the majority of infantry women to this level of strength.Even of you bring all the lifts down a hundred pounds you would still have the problem (albeit less of it). You lift heavy stuff in the military, walk very far distances with it, run with it, carry someone else with the same equipment. Simply put, a very, very small number of women would be able to do this. And too few men are able to right now. So before we bring women in (which I realize is inevitable), we should get all the men strong.