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[Criptfeind]

You can train men to kill, but you can't train them to neglect women.

What do you call the behavior of the commanding officers in those rape cases?

If that isn't neglecting women, I never want to know what is.

Jeebus you got a one tract mind.

[Vector]

Jeebus you got a one tract mind.

... I don't know if that's supposed to be an insult or a compliment =/

Er, I'm sorry?

[Criptfeind]

None of the above.

[Farmerbob]

The simple fact is that there's no real reason to prevent women from from being front line soldiers.  On average, women are smaller, and have less muscle mass.  However, on average they are also cooler under stress.

If a woman can perform the tasks that need to be performed in order to qualify for front line infantry duty, let them.

If the military brass think that witholding women front line soldiers from certain theatres might be appropriate, then let them.

Putting a woman infantry soldier with a rifle in charge of a blockade checkpoint in a middle eastern country is just begging for dead male middle eastern drivers.  While this might be best for the gene pool in the long term, it won't do us any good in the short term.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

The military isn't as strong as it should be in general. Men need to lift weights much more and women can't lift weights near as successfully as men. Being able to run far distances isn't fitness.

Are you saying that because I can only bench press 60 pounds, I am unfit? Because I have and will again run upwards of 20 miles at a stretch. I know at least one woman that has as well. Can you do that? How about running fast? Can you run a quarter of a mile in less than a minute? Because I can do that. I know of at least one woman that has done that. This isn't a large sample, either.

There are outliers for women just as there are for men. There are some women that are strong enough to carry a 100 pound pack wherever they want. There are some men (such as myself) that would die trying.

Well Barbarosssa, combat effective isnt just bench press, speed, or flexibility, its a combination of all of those plus more.  Its not designed to make anyone feel bad in anyway, converesly, its the most honest.  Its simple the result of studying what makes effective soldiers after 5000+ years of combat history to draw from.  Like I said before, what the job takes to succeed is what the job takes to succeed.  Military enemies tend to be very unforgiving in combat.

[Neonivek]

Wouldn't smaller also be good in the sense that they are smaller targets?

Also one trouble with accepting female infantry is the fact that the current batch of infantry are trained in such as way that isn't conducive to that relationship. (Also before you ask... Yes I support Female Infantry. I am just wondering about that)

[TherosPherae]

You can train men to kill, but you can't train them to neglect women.

What do you call the behavior of the commanding officers in those rape cases?

If that isn't neglecting women, I never want to know what is.

Neglect and abuse are two different things.

Neglect: to pay no attention or too little attention to; disregard or slight
Abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way

So while neglect is a form of abuse, abuse is not a form of neglect. What those officers did was abuse and NOW I'M THINKING ABOUT IT AGAIN RAGE.

However, it is very much possible to train soldiers to ignore the more.... interesting parts of a lady, and to respect her as a person. I am pretty much living proof of that.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Wouldn't smaller also be good in the sense that they are smaller targets?

Also one trouble with accepting female infantry is the fact that the current batch of infantry are trained in such as way that isn't conducive to that relationship. (Also before you ask... Yes I support Female Infantry. I am just wondering about that)

Not sure I agree with that.  Nothing specific, but I cant see how training needs to be modified.

You can train men to kill, but you can't train them to neglect women.

What do you call the behavior of the commanding officers in those rape cases?

If that isn't neglecting women, I never want to know what is.

Neglect and abuse are two different things.

Neglect: to pay no attention or too little attention to; disregard or slight
Abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way

So while neglect is a form of abuse, abuse is not a form of neglect. What those officers did was abuse and NOW I'M THINKING ABOUT IT AGAIN RAGE.

However, it is very much possible to train soldiers to ignore the more.... interesting parts of a lady, and to respect her as a person. I am pretty much living proof of that.

Some men and women serve with Honor, some dont.  Its a sad fact of humanity.

[TherosPherae]

You can train men to kill, but you can't train them to neglect women.

What do you call the behavior of the commanding officers in those rape cases?

If that isn't neglecting women, I never want to know what is.

Neglect and abuse are two different things.

Neglect: to pay no attention or too little attention to; disregard or slight
Abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way

So while neglect is a form of abuse, abuse is not a form of neglect. What those officers did was abuse and NOW I'M THINKING ABOUT IT AGAIN RAGE.

However, it is very much possible to train soldiers to ignore the more.... interesting parts of a lady, and to respect her as a person. I am pretty much living proof of that.

Some men and women serve with Honor, some dont.  Its a sad fact of humanity.

Now we must devise a way of determining which men and women would serve with honor and respect for one another, and which would end up doing crap like those officers. And it must include magma.

[Taricus]

Just neuter them...

[Vector]

For the record, I agree that women are in general physically weaker than men are.  That's just genetics.  I was raging because I've often heard "weaker" in terms of mentality and so on, as well.

On the other hand, I believe that those who can serve and want to serve should serve.  I know that I'd personally be disqualified due to a host of mental problems, and also due to being a hell of a lot more helpful in cryptology.  That's my issue.  I also know women that I'd sure as hell want doing the fighting, rather than sitting back with the pages of numbers, because ... well, frankly, they're ridiculously good at it.

I understand the logistical problems as well.  I sort of feel like we're in the "well, now things really fucking suck" stage, kind of like the usual issues with stringent political correctness.  It's not good, but I don't think moving back to the way things were is really going to improve things.  I have confidence that there's a better way forward than we've found thus far.


@TherosPherae: Good point, I totally fucked up on the wording/semantics.  I'm sure you can understand the sentiment and general idea, though.

Some men and women serve with Honor, some dont.  Its a sad fact of humanity.

True, but I don't think it has to be that way.  Not in the same proportions, at the very least.

Just neuter them...

Okay, no, ew >_>

[Neonivek]

I wonder if currently the men could handle female infantrymen though.

I think that is the better question as we all know there are women out there who more then quality for that possition.

I don't know if we could retrain them reasonable at this point though. Is it possible?

[Urist is dead tome]

The simple fact is that there's no real reason to prevent women from from being front line soldiers.  On average, women are smaller, and have less muscle mass.  However, on average they are also cooler under stress.

If a woman can perform the tasks that need to be performed in order to qualify for front line infantry duty, let them.

If the military brass think that witholding women front line soldiers from certain theatres might be appropriate, then let them.

Putting a woman infantry soldier with a rifle in charge of a blockade checkpoint in a middle eastern country is just begging for dead male middle eastern drivers.  While this might be best for the gene pool in the long term, it won't do us any good in the short term.

Actually, the decreased muscle and bone mass is a huge problem. Also women, due to the higher amounts of estrogen would me more emotional, not less.

[Vector]

I don't know if we could retrain them reasonable at this point though. Is it possible?

I can't say if it's possible, but I think the only way we'll ever get anywhere is through little steps.  So, if you ask "is it possible to fully integrate female soldiers by just doing a quick retrain?"  No.  Will it happen in the next two or three generations?  Probably not.  But in the future... yes, I believe it will be more than possible.

Actually, the decreased muscle and bone mass is a huge problem. Also women, due to the higher amounts of estrogen would me more emotional, not less.

... Ha ha ha.  Very funny.

[Ochita]

Actually, the decreased muscle and bone mass is a huge problem. Also women, due to the higher amounts of estrogen would me more emotional, not less.

Really? Most of the women and girls that I know seem to have a very good control on their emotions.