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[Leafsnail]

And sharing showers/tents will increase that how?

Y'know... giving extremely easy opportunities for rape all the time?  Possibly forcing someone to stay in the same tent as their rapist?  It's not for nothing that the women in these stories try to avoid the bathrooms as much as possible.

men and women in the army should be capable of sharing facilities.

I completely agree.  But apparently they aren't.

[olemars]

the UK trialed female frontline combatants a few years ago. Women were found to be combat capable, but similar to the isrealie example mentioned a few pages back there were issues. If a female solider got injured all the men would stop to help, and it couldnt be drilled out of them, so they found over all combat effectivness was reduced. Essentially British line infantry were considered too gentlemanly.

Too gentlemanly? The UK army? It's about the rudest entity on earth, excepting perhaps scottish oil rig engineers. They don't speak unless it can be formulated into a racist and/or sexist joke somehow. I can see their machismo troubled by letting women join up.

There aren't any restrictions to who can sign up for what in our (ie Norwegian) military, and about 10% across all branches are women, including infantry units deployed to combat zones (Afghanistan). Never heard any big fuss about it. We had a few female NCOs and officers in our unit when I was in, The NCOs were tougher than their male colleagues, as they tend to overcompensate a bit. It's not hard to build both a men's and women's shower in a barracks, and in the field there aren't any facilities anyway.

[de5me7]

the UK trialed female frontline combatants a few years ago. Women were found to be combat capable, but similar to the isrealie example mentioned a few pages back there were issues. If a female solider got injured all the men would stop to help, and it couldnt be drilled out of them, so they found over all combat effectivness was reduced. Essentially British line infantry were considered too gentlemanly.

Aside from the apparent unfairness of this ("Some else is screwing up, sorry, you'll have to go") this would seem to necessitate the removal of women from any job in which they could conceivably get injured.  No female police officers, firefighters...

fortunately the armed forces aren't really interested in fairness. There are plenty of women in the British police, even the riot police, possibly they are better disiplined than the army. The airforce and navy take women (though im not sure about women pilots). Ive never met a female fireman, but i think they are allowed, or a female lifeboat crew member.

[Urist is dead tome]

Except that's exactly what Urist was arguing in that quote.  "Women are too emotional to be allowed in the army" isn't too different from "Women are too emotional to be allowed the vote".

This is just simply untrue. Nowhere did I state this. I said that increased estrogen made women more emotional. And while on this subject I'd have to state that testosterone doesn't turn people into apes who try to run up and batter the enemy to death. It increases aggressiveness.

I've never met a female fireman, but I think they are allowed, or a female lifeboat crew member.

I would like to state that when Americans tried to put in mix gender firefighters they had to lower the standards.

[TherosPherae]

Except that's exactly what Urist was arguing in that quote.  "Women are too emotional to be allowed in the army" isn't too different from "Women are too emotional to be allowed the vote".

This is just simply untrue. Nowhere did I state this. I said that increased estrogen made women more emotional. And while on this subject I'd have to state that testosterone doesn't turn people into apes who try to run up and batter the enemy to death. It increases aggressiveness.

I've never met a female fireman, but I think they are allowed, or a female lifeboat crew member.

I would like to state that when Americans tried to put in mix gender firefighters they had to lower the standards.

Uhm... last I checked, running up and battering the enemy to death is a lot more aggressive than pulling out a pistol and putting lead between his eyes. Also, a more aggressive person is more likely to do something stupid and get lead between their own eyes, thus making them a helluva lot less useful. So I'd rather have a soldier that cries with every bullet they shoot and has the sense to hide behind a sandbag wall than a soldier who doesn't cry at all because he got really aggressive, tried to stay up for a few more minutes to really teach those guys a lesson, and got shot himself.

Oh, and if you could throw in a reference for the mixed firefighters group having lower standards, that'd be good.

[Nadaka]

I am skipping in from page 4. The term "weaker sex" is not entirely, or even mostly, about physical strength. It also carries the connotation of reduced mental faculty, emotional fortitude and preservation in the face of challenge and suffering. IT IS WRONG.

Even males advantage in "strength" is a not entirely accurate. Compare a man and woman with equal muscle mass and it will be much less clear who has the advantage. The ability to gain and retain muscle mass and ability to give birth are pretty much the only areas where there is any significant advantage/disadvantage between the sexes.

[Leafsnail]

fortunately the armed forces aren't really interested in fairness. There are plenty of women in the British police, even the riot police, possibly they are better disiplined than the army. The airforce and navy take women (though im not sure about women pilots). Ive never met a female fireman, but i think they are allowed, or a female lifeboat crew member.

Ah, but remember, men cannot ever be trained to not help an injured female colleague.  We'll just have to get rid of our 40,000 or so female police officers.

[Ochita]

I would like to state that when Americans tried to put in mix gender firefighters they had to lower the standards.

[Citation needed]

[freeformschooler]

I would like to state that when Americans tried to put in mix gender firefighters they had to lower the standards.

[Citation needed]

[1]... wait, nope.

[Jreengus]

I would like to state that when Americans tried to put in mix gender firefighters they had to lower the standards.

[Citation needed]

^[1]... wait, nope.

There ya go.

[Ochita]

I would like to state that when Americans tried to put in mix gender firefighters they had to lower the standards.

[Citation needed]

^[1]... wait, nope.

There ya go.

Ah. Thank you!

[DJ]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd have a really hard time watching any squad-mate bleed out, regardless of gender.

[Ochita]

To me, if anyone got shot, and they were still alive, I would try to save them.. Be it man or woman.

[PsyberianHusky]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd have a really hard time watching any squad-mate bleed out, regardless of gender.

Agreed.
I know my gut reaction to seeing someone in harms way would be to something stupid, it feels like its just human nature.

[Phmcw]

Meh, the whole issue is that military is still very macho.
The only people that are against it is those who think women are the "weaker sex" (read inferior) and don't want to sully their beloved military with them.

Tsahal is one of the strongest army on earth and they had no problem including women in their rank.
Likewise, I really wouldn't want to fight a female commando.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israeli_Defense_Forces
Ok physical difference... would only be relevant is the strongest women was weaker than the requirement for being effective in combat. So no, it's not relevant.

Logistic problem... ok, I get it, two row of shower must be an insolvable problem for US military. wow, how have every other societies, company, school, ... managed to solve these problems. I really don't know... must be magic.

Ho no, wait the women will be taken hostage so that the men get killed when they run to help them. Well given that you'll lose the idiot who are not able to understand that they have to do their work , not to play hero by saving the "feeble damsel in distress", I'd say it's a good thing.