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[Farmerbob]

Inside the spoiler there should be a labeled image, color coded with an idea I've had for handling all the various types of nasties I can think of

I believe this trap system will stop almost anything but flying critters, while at the same time being minimally troublesome for dwarves.  I have a couple ideas for handling flyers that but would like some input from others before I go and make this much more complex.

Will the perpetually burning lignite grates handle flyers?

Note: the Floodgates would be manually triggered.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Kogut]

"burning forever" - you need artifacts to ensure this

[noodle0117]

Even with all those traps, its always nice to have at least a marksdwarf or two looking over everything in a little fortification lined tower.
Gotta say that is a pretty solid trap defence, although its best to be prepared in case you meet a dragon or bronze colossus or something

[EmperorJon]

Interesting setup. I usually just stick a ton of cages, with weapons for anything that gets past that... and then balistae looking down on it. And a magma chute incase. Then I inset marksdwarf bunkers either side. Gobbobbobobobobogbliniiiite!

[Guedez]

I just moat everything up(about the whole map) and only open the gates when needed, the front doors will be filled with cage traps and the walls fortifications, so if i get a siege or dragon, i just shot it down(unless dragons fly, never saw one), if it's a ambush, i just get more prisioners

1=normal ground
2=moat and fortifications on the upper floor
3=walls

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of course the moat is about 5 tiles large and the fortifications not, but you get it

invasionproff againt everything but a flying stuff

[Jelle]

Magma and water seems a little overkill, you'd have to mine out the obsidian and stuff. Wouldn't it be better to just work with magma, drain it afterwards for re use?

Other then that, much more deadly that whatever I usually do (wich is setting naked dwarves in defence en mass  )

[agatharchides]

I'm a strong advocate of repeating spike traps for most things. You can turn them off, they kill things with TRAPAVOID and don't make a goblin into 20 hauling jobs. The only downsides is that they aren't too good at killing things with no organs.

[Sphalerite]

Human traders and diplomats will walk right over the pressure plates without setting them off, walk over the burning lignite and catch on fire, then run around the map setting everything on fire as they do.

Cats and other small pets are also too small to trigger pressure plates and will also go down the burning corridor.

Trolls and other buildingdestroyers will smash your floor hatches and make the entire system useless.

[Farmerbob]

Human traders and diplomats will walk right over the pressure plates without setting them off, walk over the burning lignite and catch on fire, then run around the map setting everything on fire as they do.

Cats and other small pets are also too small to trigger pressure plates and will also go down the burning corridor.

Trolls and other buildingdestroyers will smash your floor hatches and make the entire system useless.

I thought diplomats and traders were always considered "dwarves" as far as pressure plates go?  The first set of pressure plates should redirect them down the "safe" path.

Cat pets should trigger the friendly pressure plates as well, if they are set for minimum to maximum weights.

Trolls might smash some of the hatches and whatnot, but I don't think they will smash burning lignite floor grates.  If they smash the normally closed magma floodgates, well, it will make a mess, but still do what it's intended to do - release enough magma to coat the floors and set everything on fire.

However it might be a good idea to include some sort of manually operated drawbridge that will prevent access to the innermost defenses

Additionally a couple tightly closed but not forbidden doors around the burning floors might be good as well.

Looks like I need a couple more normally open floodgates in the safe passage at each end, and a reversal of the plate and hatch assembly at the fortress (right) side of the trap system.

Another thing to consider - the burning lignite floor grates - will they allow loot to fall through, or will anything caught in that passageway that doesn't burn or melt be inaccessable forever?  If the loot won't fall to the lower level then I'll need to reconsider, and just make the thing a weapon-trap and water/magma based defense.

My goal here is maximum protection with minimal dwarf input.  I have never been able to make any military work, and have entirely given up on anything military in the current DF versions.  I do want access to the outside world though, for trade.


I'll fiddle a bit with the design later tonight. - Excel is your dwarf fortress friend, and I forgot to send myself the file

Oh, also, burning lignite has no melting point I thought, and would burn forever, even underwater?  I've never actually used burning lignite floor grates, but think they would be wonderful for kobold thieves and goblin snatchers?

[Kogut]

"burning forever" - you need artifacts to ensure this

[Farmerbob]

"burning forever" - you need artifacts to ensure this

Ah ok I had bypassed this in order to look into it more.  Apparently it takes about 9 months for lignite grates to burn away, there is wear but it's slow


I will renotate the yellow as oscillating upright spear traps tonight, and figure out the design for the pressure plate controller.

[Sphalerite]

I thought diplomats and traders were always considered "dwarves" as far as pressure plates go?  The first set of pressure plates should redirect them down the "safe" path.

No.  Human diplomats and traders at the very least do not set off either pressure plates set for civilians or those set for enemies.  I know this from experience, in the current version they won't set off any pressure plates.

Cat pets should trigger the friendly pressure plates as well, if they are set for minimum to maximum weights.

No.  Pressure plates have a non-zero minimum weight they can be set to.  Cats and other small creatures are below this weight, so they will not set off any pressure plate.

Trolls might smash some of the hatches and whatnot, but I don't think they will smash burning lignite floor grates.  If they smash the normally closed magma floodgates, well, it will make a mess, but still do what it's intended to do - release enough magma to coat the floors and set everything on fire.

They won't reach the grates.  They'll reach the hatches and smash them before stepping on them, which will block the path and prevent them from proceeding further.

Looks like I need a couple more normally open floodgates in the safe passage at each end, and a reversal of the plate and hatch assembly at the fortress (right) side of the trap system.

There's no such thing as a normally open floodgate.  Floodgates are normally closed.  If you want a normally open passage, use a single-tile raising bridge.

Another thing to consider - the burning lignite floor grates - will they allow loot to fall through, or will anything caught in that passageway that doesn't burn or melt be inaccessable forever? 

Objects do not fall through grates, so any non-burnable objects dropped by the creatures will stay on the grates.

Oh, also, burning lignite has no melting point I thought, and would burn forever, even underwater?  I've never actually used burning lignite floor grates, but think they would be wonderful for kobold thieves and goblin snatchers?

No, burning forever has nothing to do with melting point.  Burning objects take gradual wear damage until they are destroyed.  This happens no matter what the object's melting point is.  Objects with a low melting point may melt before they are destroyed by fire-induced wear, but objects with no melting point will still wear away to nothing.  The only objects that burn forever are artifacts, which are immune to wear, so you need flammable artifact grates to make this work, or replace the graphite grates every year or so.

Also, the only way to prevent water from putting out a burning object is to have the object in a fireproof bin.  Even then, the object, unless it's an artifact, will wear away from fire-induced damage.

[Farmerbob]

I thought diplomats and traders were always considered "dwarves" as far as pressure plates go?  The first set of pressure plates should redirect them down the "safe" path.

No.  Human diplomats and traders at the very least do not set off either pressure plates set for civilians or those set for enemies.  I know this from experience, in the current version they won't set off any pressure plates.

Cat pets should trigger the friendly pressure plates as well, if they are set for minimum to maximum weights.

No.  Pressure plates have a non-zero minimum weight they can be set to.  Cats and other small creatures are below this weight, so they will not set off any pressure plate.

Trolls might smash some of the hatches and whatnot, but I don't think they will smash burning lignite floor grates.  If they smash the normally closed magma floodgates, well, it will make a mess, but still do what it's intended to do - release enough magma to coat the floors and set everything on fire.

They won't reach the grates.  They'll reach the hatches and smash them before stepping on them, which will block the path and prevent them from proceeding further.

Looks like I need a couple more normally open floodgates in the safe passage at each end, and a reversal of the plate and hatch assembly at the fortress (right) side of the trap system.

There's no such thing as a normally open floodgate.  Floodgates are normally closed.  If you want a normally open passage, use a single-tile raising bridge.

Another thing to consider - the burning lignite floor grates - will they allow loot to fall through, or will anything caught in that passageway that doesn't burn or melt be inaccessable forever? 

Objects do not fall through grates, so any non-burnable objects dropped by the creatures will stay on the grates.

Oh, also, burning lignite has no melting point I thought, and would burn forever, even underwater?  I've never actually used burning lignite floor grates, but think they would be wonderful for kobold thieves and goblin snatchers?

No, burning forever has nothing to do with melting point.  Burning objects take gradual wear damage until they are destroyed.  This happens no matter what the object's melting point is.  Objects with a low melting point may melt before they are destroyed by fire-induced wear, but objects with no melting point will still wear away to nothing.  The only objects that burn forever are artifacts, which are immune to wear, so you need flammable artifact grates to make this work, or replace the graphite grates every year or so.

Also, the only way to prevent water from putting out a burning object is to have the object in a fireproof bin.  Even then, the object, unless it's an artifact, will wear away from fire-induced damage.

Interesting.  I've used friendly dwarf/pet passages controlled by pressure plates set to full range of weights before and never had any problems with cats, dwarves, or any diplomat or trader using the wrong ones.  I'll do some !!Science!! tonight.

I'll be replacing the firey lignite grates idea with an oscillating liquid pressure plate spike trap setup.  Less dependent on a specific material and it can be turned off for cleaning / loot gathering.

Thanks for all the points, I'll make good use of the information tonight I hope, with much !!Science!!