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[D.L.]

Is there any way to safely tap water sources like underground lakes/rivers and keep out beasties? The wiki says that fortifications, when submerged 7/7, don't keep out creatures. I wanted to build a fishing hole, but it seems that monsters might be able to get in. Can fishers fish through grates? Can monsters come up through grates? I know building destroyers can destroy wall grates, but can a BD destroy a floor grate above them?

[EmperorJon]

Floor grates above should be safe. As for fortifications, I've never had a problem with them being breached at 7/7. Or ever.

[Khift]

I've never experienced the fortification issue; I've used underwater / undermagma fortifications for many forts and never once had an issue. Your mileage may vary. The wiki may have been referring to the fact that flows can push creatures through fortifications, which is a real thing but is almost never an issue (and when it is it's always the dwarf getting pushed out into the cave, not the beastie getting pushed into the fort).

Floor grates are perfectly safe. Building destroyers cannot destroy anything not on their z-level. They think they can, but they can't. They'll swim right up to it and stand still indefinitely. I'm not 100%, but I believe this would actually spook your fisherdwarves away, but the beastie would never get into the fortress. And yes, dwarves can fish through floor grates.

[DrKillPatient]

Hm, you could put some retractable spikes in the water channel under the grate to repeatedly stab whatever beast decides to stand beneath it.

[Flare]

The only fool proof way is to dig your own underground lake which you can isolate from the rest of the water source after you fill it. I've read that bridges when raised can't be destroyed, but if you want a fool proof way of sealing the tap source, just build a flood gate, and when the source is full, close it and wall it up.

[Valkyrie]

I've had the issue the wiki speaks of, though only with Forgotten Beasts.  They just treat the tile as completely passable, like the fortification wasn't even there - and it's not a flow-related issue, it's always been in static, stationary, full 7/7 ponds.  It's happened in multiple forts with several different setups, so it seems a relatively confirmed bug imo.

The only workaround I *know* works is floor grates, and using pressure to force water from the source up through the floor grate, rather than sideways through a fortification.  Since building destroyers can't (at least, last I checked) destroy something directly above them, the floor grates are safe from attack from below - though your dwaves will still be scared if they have line-of-sight to the beast on the far side of the grate.  Thus, there is a workaround, but it takes much more planning and care (and z-levels) than the simple fortification-tapping of old.

I've heard about success in dodging the 7/7-fortifications-passable issue using Vertical Bars instead, but I haven't managed to test it myself, and am rather doubtful about its veracity.

[Valkyrie]

The only fool proof way is to dig your own underground lake which you can isolate from the rest of the water source after you fill it. I've read that bridges when raised can't be destroyed, but if you want a fool proof way of sealing the tap source, just build a flood gate, and when the source is full, close it and wall it up.

Though a building destroyer will destroy the floodgate.  If you wall up the 'inside' to prevent the destroyer from getting in, that still means any new floodgate would have to be built on the 'inside' of the wall, so you'd lose 2 tiles of space every time you went to refill it (or have to do something more complicated allowing you to drain the refill tube first).

[vassock]

The only fool proof way is to dig your own underground lake which you can isolate from the rest of the water source after you fill it. I've read that bridges when raised can't be destroyed, but if you want a fool proof way of sealing the tap source, just build a flood gate, and when the source is full, close it and wall it up.

Though a building destroyer will destroy the floodgate.  If you wall up the 'inside' to prevent the destroyer from getting in, that still means any new floodgate would have to be built on the 'inside' of the wall, so you'd lose 2 tiles of space every time you went to refill it (or have to do something more complicated allowing you to drain the refill tube first).

Why use a floodgate instead of a drawbridge, anyway? A floodgate is more difficult to make and it's impossible to easily choose the materials for it. In addition to the floodgate being destructible.

[Flare]

The only fool proof way is to dig your own underground lake which you can isolate from the rest of the water source after you fill it. I've read that bridges when raised can't be destroyed, but if you want a fool proof way of sealing the tap source, just build a flood gate, and when the source is full, close it and wall it up.

Though a building destroyer will destroy the floodgate.  If you wall up the 'inside' to prevent the destroyer from getting in, that still means any new floodgate would have to be built on the 'inside' of the wall, so you'd lose 2 tiles of space every time you went to refill it (or have to do something more complicated allowing you to drain the refill tube first).

The point is that this isn't a job that require the player to release water into the underground lake bed, you fill it up and plug up the hole. The floodgate is only there to stop the water after filling so the dwarves and go and put a wall right behind it.

[wuphonsreach]

The only fool proof way is to dig your own underground lake which you can isolate from the rest of the water source after you fill it. I've read that bridges when raised can't be destroyed, but if you want a fool proof way of sealing the tap source, just build a flood gate, and when the source is full, close it and wall it up.

Creating your own private pool of water is best.  Let's say the underground lake is 7/7 at level Z100.  On level Z101, place a manually operated pump and have it pull from the underground lake and pump into a cistern with the water passing through a fortification tile (or two).  I usually make the cistern about 3Zs deep with the top level being equal with the pump's level.  Use a dwarf to manually fill the cistern.  After 30 seconds of pumping, your cistern will be full and you can then wall off the pump from the rest of your fortress.  Try to cut the pump off before the water gets up to 7/7 on the same Z-level as the pump, but it's no big deal if you don't.

The primary advantages here is that even if you screw up and leave water at 7/7 past the pump and something nasty comes along it will have to destroy the pump first.  The water past the pump will suddenly rush backwards and the fortification tiles will quickly go from being 7/7 water to 6/7 (down to 1/7).  It may even wash the nasty beast back out the way it came in.  When it crawls back up, now the fortification tiles are not flooded to 7/7 so it cannot get through.

[jaxad0127]

Use a grate and a screw pump. The wiki says screw pumps can pump through grates. Protection and a water tap.

[vassock]

The only fool proof way is to dig your own underground lake which you can isolate from the rest of the water source after you fill it. I've read that bridges when raised can't be destroyed, but if you want a fool proof way of sealing the tap source, just build a flood gate, and when the source is full, close it and wall it up.

Though a building destroyer will destroy the floodgate.  If you wall up the 'inside' to prevent the destroyer from getting in, that still means any new floodgate would have to be built on the 'inside' of the wall, so you'd lose 2 tiles of space every time you went to refill it (or have to do something more complicated allowing you to drain the refill tube first).

The point is that this isn't a job that require the player to release water into the underground lake bed, you fill it up and plug up the hole. The floodgate is only there to stop the water after filling so the dwarves and go and put a wall right behind it.

A door is what you need.

[jester]

I use a floodgate hooked to a lever sandwiched between two fortifications.  Other than filling it stays shut.   Ive found that is the simplest and fastest way early on.  Ill confirm on screwpumps through grates, and they are invincible to anything below them, it works fine but it is a bit more fiddley.  Ditto on the teleporting fell beasts, happened twice before I figured it out.