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[Lord Darkstar]

Sorry, double post.

[Kogut]

You can also arm everybody with crossbows. Instant death for small problems.

[Reelyanoob]

You forgot to mention Burrows and Military Alerts. That's how you keep people inside during combat. Look these up on the wiki.

I know...

But unless you know there is an ambush the allert is offline. Otherwise you have to change the burrows everytime you expand your fortress. And if there is an ambush the goblins usually appear next to a dwarf or an animal next to a dwarf.

Huh? WTF you're not making sense here, it's not as compilcated as you make it out. Siege comes, put alert out, guys stay inside. Siege over, cancel alert. It's like 3-4 keypresses to activate. You only need one safe-area, though it's nice if it includes your workshops etc. A guy outside who gets fragged isn't savable anyway. Anyway you do NOT need to expand burrows every time the fortress expands, you can burrow entire z-levels before they are dug out, i'm pretty certain.

And if your not letting guys outside (eg the alert is on 24/7) then you'd just lock the front door, not use burrows. Alerts are for areas which need to be regularly accessed (eg surface for woodchopping), but you might need to keep people out of at some point.

Say you use cage traps, Burrows/Alerts stops the dwarves trying to refill traps or haul caged gobbos in while the siege is still on.

Also, do you declare zones as water sources?

Oh, and BONE BOLTS, a use for your bone carver, and you never need wood for archery.

If you have a river, automated goblin drowning is easy to design, no cages required.

For the danger room, forget pressure-plates. Make the room smaller, and 100% traps. Lever outside, set it to be pulled constantly with q-a-P-r, and an idle dwarf will keep pulling the lever. Alternatively, link the traps to a repeater like on the wiki. You probably set the pressure plate to "activate by creatures" rather than "activate by citizens".

As for military grade metals, Silver makes great hammers and crossbows i hear. Use copper/bronze armour with this until you get some iron/steel.

You should really look at the very simple measures to stop enemy access :-

H = Hatch
P = Pressure Plate
H = Hatch

in a thin tunnel, will stop pretty much anything, just set it to "creatures" and the widest weight range. your dwarves will still pass like normal. You may only need one hatch, depending on which side the enemy are coming from, but HPH will stop enemies going either way.

You can make a room with many small entrances with HP combos in each (don't forget to channel, remove ramps, under the hatches). Enemies can path into the area, but not path out, or escape in any way. Once there's a bunch of enemies trapped in one, you can take them out anyway you like, eg turn it into a drowning chamber, or have a wall (well, a raising bridge really) which comes down to reveal marksdwarves behind fortifications.


Or like others said just have a hatch over some down-stairs leading to the outside, and it's as good as the best defence ever. Takes like 3 seconds to set up.

[Darkweave]

I don't get the "Ambushes turn up too early" attitude. If you have said this what you're avoiding is that YOU put off preparing for it. Don't blame the game for your mistake. I don't get the "Have a corridor of cage traps" mentality either. Just turn invaders off until you're ready if you don't want to deal with them, unless you want to execute them in fun ways that is.

I've had the majority of my forts survive the first few years of ambushes, semi-megabeasts, seiges and titans by making sure I get a squad of 5-6 dwarfs in at least iron training by the first winter - which really isn't that difficult. After that I add migrants to the military once I have my preferred industries set up, am cranking out armor and weapons at a decent rate and have >5 idlers. Even just training two months on one month off it only takes a dwarf around 18 months to two years to reach level six to nine in military skills (without a danger room). They can then start training up fresh recruits and you should be able to deal with most reasonable threats without massive issues. Sure you'll lose some dwarfs but if you want to keep everyone alive go play Sim City or wall yourself in.

Sometimes you'll get unlucky and have a squad of elite Xbow or Lasher gobbos turn up before the end of the 2nd year and your military will get slaughtered but hey, it's Fun and it certainly doesn't happen with every fort. 

Edit: Catching the first goblin ambush or two in cages, stripping them of weapons only and feeding them to a single well equipped dwarf with the teacher skill can also give you a decent guy to train up the rest of your military, try it out.

[malvado]

Well, I can understand the OP , I've had some serious trouble myself with my forts growing too fast in Dwarves the first years with migration waves that are huge despite not growing up wealth a lot besides doing exactly what the fortress needs to survive (even sometimes having most dwarves starving due to not being able to cope with the food supply in time) , I often end up in 80+ dwarves very early and military not yet ready to serve at the end of the second year.

There's also a couple of other problems with the latest version of Dwarf fortress such as the continuing Attribute decay even when training the appropiate Skill unless you modify the creature_standard file wich in fact leaves your dwarves pretty weak even with the appropiate training in 31.25 .

Sure things are pretty manageable if you can get over these issues, but honestly there's some serious balancing that needs to be done, for starters I believe that immigration also should be based on more than just "wealth" such as for example defending vs enemies and diplomacy and the skill growth / decay should seriously be a difficulty setting more than anything else.

[Damien White]

You forgot to mention Burrows and Military Alerts. That's how you keep people inside during combat. Look these up on the wiki.

Please, read the Thread... There are at least 10 people suggesting burrows and I already statet twice to have the knowledge about burrows...

Huh? WTF you're not making sense here, it's not as compilcated as you make it out. Siege comes, put alert out, guys stay inside. Siege over, cancel alert. It's like 3-4 keypresses to activate. You only need one safe-area, though it's nice if it includes your workshops etc. A guy outside who gets fragged isn't savable anyway. Anyway you do NOT need to expand burrows every time the fortress expands, you can burrow entire z-levels before they are dug out, i'm pretty certain.

Erm, a siege may be announced, an Ambush is not. And most the time the Ambush appears next to a dwarf and so the dwarf gets killed 90% of the time. If I am unlucky the ambush happens right when a migrant wave appears and so 5-8 dwarfes got killed. Even if my dwarfes inside my fortress have no idea who the other dwarfes are, they get mad and throw tantrums.

Actually I solved the tantrum problem by not engraving my walls ^^"


Basicly all your "Lock your door" "raise your bridge" etc tips fail once a wave of migrants or some trader arrive. Both get slaughtered in no time and either your dwarfes get mad or the race of the traders.

I don't get the "Ambushes turn up too early" attitude. If you have said this what you're avoiding is that YOU put off preparing for it. Don't blame the game for your mistake. I don't get the "Have a corridor of cage traps" mentality either. Just turn invaders off until you're ready if you don't want to deal with them, unless you want to execute them in fun ways that is.

I dont say they appear to early, I only said the only possible way to defend against the first ambushes are trapps. And I dont turn of invaders! Its freeking DF, there is no easy way, I now know my mistakes and none of them was keeping invaders active...



Seriously, did anyone of you read this thread or just "Nerdpost" cause of the subject? You are pointing on things wich are pointet out on page one AND the problem is already solved. It has nothing to do with traps, draw bridges, burrows, doors or some sort of hypertheoretical flooding mechanism.

Its simply dwarfen training. Nothing special, just training.

[kardwill]

Edit: Catching the first goblin ambush or two in cages, stripping them of weapons only and feeding them to a single well equipped dwarf with the teacher skill can also give you a decent guy to train up the rest of your military, try it out.

Stripping them of weapons AND shields... Do not forget the shields... So much blood and crushed bones... wimper

[Darkweave]

Edit: Catching the first goblin ambush or two in cages, stripping them of weapons only and feeding them to a single well equipped dwarf with the teacher skill can also give you a decent guy to train up the rest of your military, try it out.

Stripping them of weapons AND shields... Do not forget the shields... So much blood and crushed bones... wimper

Ah yes, good point, forgetting that was a bad move... my poor militia commander 

[Psieye]

Erm, a siege may be announced, an Ambush is not. And most the time the Ambush appears next to a dwarf and so the dwarf gets killed 90% of the time.

There's your problem. WHY do you not know an Ambush is going on before a dwarf finds it? Ok sure, if it's a migrant or a wood hauler/cutter then there's little helping, but fort entrances should have long corridors watched over by animals to detect ambushes long before important dwarves get in contact with the stealth goblins. Then you have ample time to switch on the civilian alert to restrict everyone's movements to limited portions of your fort.

If I am unlucky the ambush happens right when a migrant wave appears and so 5-8 dwarfes got killed. Even if my dwarfes inside my fortress have no idea who the other dwarfes are, they get mad and throw tantrums.

Check your dwarves' thoughts. Getting into a tantrum because random migrant #7 died just as he entered the map should not happen. See exactly what's causing them to get miserable, it must be something else not the actual migrants' deaths.

Its simply dwarfen training

You still get posts in this thread because you resorted to danger rooms. Your choice in how you play DF so all is fine. Just that some players have figured out how training is only meaningful when kick-started with experienced combatants so they frown on danger rooms as a cop out to learning how to get training to work. Dwarves who don't know how to fight cannot properly teach others how to fight and nobody wants to spar until they know how to wield their weapon in the first place.

[greycat]

There's your problem. WHY do you not know an Ambush is going on before a dwarf finds it?

Because he's trying to keep his immigrants and caravans alive.

[kardwill]

Kitten/bunny/whatever early alert system might help : chain some random useless animals in various places of the map. When it gets killed, you know the enemy is here. Sure, it will not catch every squad (and won't last long if predators are on the prowl), but it's better than a woodcutter getting his face full of goblinite.
Also build some secondary entrance-fort, that can be protected from gobbos, and which is isolated from the fortress in case of lockdown (and by default : open the internal gate only when the traders are here and the external gate is closed). With this "hatch", the caravan and migrants have a place to run to (and you might catch a few goblins in it at the same time : easy training for your militia.)
But yes, mostly : Have a good drill sergeant in your starting seven. Having a guy who knows which end of the battleaxe goes into the gobbo, and how to teach it, helps. Hunting is also a great crossbow academy.
And avoid having too much luxury in your fortress too soon : Gold statues, steel armors and engraved walls are goblin magnets. I try to stay low-profile until I have a few soldiers battle ready.

[Damien White]

Erm, a siege may be announced, an Ambush is not. And most the time the Ambush appears next to a dwarf and so the dwarf gets killed 90% of the time.

There's your problem. WHY do you not know an Ambush is going on before a dwarf finds it? Ok sure, if it's a migrant or a wood hauler/cutter then there's little helping, but fort entrances should have long corridors watched over by animals to detect ambushes long before important dwarves get in contact with the stealth goblins. Then you have ample time to switch on the civilian alert to restrict everyone's movements to limited portions of your fort.

My Entrance look like this:

Code: [Select]

WWWGGGWWW
WWWGGGWWW
WWWGGGWWW
WWWGGGWWW
WGGGGGGGW
WGWGWGWGW
WGWGWGWGW
WDWDWDWDW
WGWGWGWGW
WGWGWGWGW

W = Wall
G = Ground
D = Dog

I get 4 entrance, each one 1 tile wide and 4-6 tiles long, guarded by one war dog. behind the 4 entrances there is the usuall 3 tile Hallway.

You also should know how ambushes work. They are hidden and "passive" unless one of your animals or dwarfes runs straight into them. Some of you told me to place animals all over the place, but even with 20 dogs, breeding like crazy you wont get enough animals for this sort of defence and also not enough ropes.

This might be an great option for year 3 or 4, but not 1.

Anyway, the main Problem are dwarfes running outside because of stupid reasons. Like i mentioned in the first post, they run outside to watch the Sun or some 2/7 mudhole, even if you provide them with more entertaining stuff, there are still some which run outside.

And yes, I createt Zones for whater, fishing (and disabled every fishing related labor), I got at least 4 meeting areas (1 legendary dining room, 1 legendary statue garden inside, 1 statue garden outside and 1 after a hallway full of caged animals and statues)

If I am unlucky the ambush happens right when a migrant wave appears and so 5-8 dwarfes got killed. Even if my dwarfes inside my fortress have no idea who the other dwarfes are, they get mad and throw tantrums.

Check your dwarves' thoughts. Getting into a tantrum because random migrant #7 died just as he entered the map should not happen. See exactly what's causing them to get miserable, it must be something else not the actual migrants' deaths.

I figured out, my dwarfes lived to happy. I stoped engraving the walls (just smoothed them) and they stop throwing tantrums. My theory is, because the lived a live without any sort of negative aspect they got kinda "lazy" and once something goes wrong they get crazy like hell cause they have no idea how to handle the situation.

But its just a theory.

Its simply dwarfen training

You still get posts in this thread because you resorted to danger rooms. Your choice in how you play DF so all is fine. Just that some players have figured out how training is only meaningful when kick-started with experienced combatants so they frown on danger rooms as a cop out to learning how to get training to work. Dwarves who don't know how to fight cannot properly teach others how to fight and nobody wants to spar until they know how to wield their weapon in the first place.

Realy? Never thougt of that....

And avoid having too much luxury in your fortress too soon : Gold statues, steel armors and engraved walls are goblin magnets. I try to stay low-profile until I have a few soldiers battle ready.

You sure about that? Someone said only exportet crafts count to the "siege'o'meter". Do mined out tiles also count? I usually try to establish some sort of water reservoir aka a large chamber below my fortress, 20x10x4 in size, connectet with wells an water zones.

[kardwill]

And avoid having too much luxury in your fortress too soon : Gold statues, steel armors and engraved walls are goblin magnets. I try to stay low-profile until I have a few soldiers battle ready.

You sure about that? Someone said only exportet crafts count to the "siege'o'meter". Do mined out tiles also count? I usually try to establish some sort of water reservoir aka a large chamber below my fortress, 20x10x4 in size, connectet with wells an water zones.

Not SURE, but I really think so. In my first fortresses, I made golden statues, siver furniture, and I was ambushed the first year. In my current fortress, I tried to stay low-profile (temporary quarters, no smoothing, no luxury, minimal trade for the first 2 years), and the first goblin thief came only the third winter (In fact, I was as worried about the lack of hostiles). There was an Ettin on year 2, but my 6-proficient-dwarf copper-weaponry leather-armor militia calmly cut it to ribbons.

For chained beasts : Dogs are satisfying intelectually (guard beasts, and all), but are useful and breed slowly, and are a luxury that should not be used as bait. On the other hand, cats are often plentiful, and some new beasties like poultry and rabbits are dirt cheap and breed as if there is no tomorow. For the ropes, you can buy 1-2 cloth bins from the first caravan, or simply pasture them in the countryside.
You don't need many of them : 10 will nicely cover your embark's "blind spots" (the goal is to detect the ambushes far from your dwarves, so that you can evacuate). You will still lose a woodcutter or fisher from time to time, but not as many as now.

[Reelyanoob]

Great idea, but I run out of ideas to provide my dwarfes with work once they become more than 50 >.<"

Idea! - 50 training pumps.

Already tried that. Once Migrants arrive and get killed I get a crazy tantrum spiral.

Funny, I've never had anyone care about migrants whatsoever.

Also, because my dwarves are busy I was able to atom-smasher 3 of their actual working brethren (they were all "cat lovers", their  14 pet cats were in the chamber too), the forts glass maker, dyer and  i forget what the third one is. Because I keep them busy, nobody even noticed.

[Reelyanoob]

Basicly all your "Lock your door" "raise your bridge" etc tips fail once a wave of migrants or some trader arrive. Both get slaughtered in no time and either your dwarfes get mad or the race of the traders.

Yeah, but that's never happened to me at all. No tantrums, no angry traders. I've locked plenty of traders out to save the fortress and they got killed, never had them siege me (but I do give a 100% markup on trades) So really there's got to be something else going on with your fort.

EDIT: I even once accidentally lowered a drawbridge onto a trader, turned out to be the head one i guess, and all the rest of the caravan turned around and went home that year without getting to the depot. They didn't even siege me then. And I think the biggest tatrum spiral I ever had was like 3 guys or so. I don't even build personalized bedrooms (just a bunch of undesignated single rooms with beds), or smooth the floors or anything, just a big dining-room, good food and drink.

And really, if 1 or two migrant waves get nuked, that's no great loss.

Why would I send out guys I spent hours training to die fighting a horde of goblin crossbowmen, just to save some guys generated by the Random Number Generator? And they are literally randomly generated the very instant that you get the announcement that migrants have arrived. Even the exact number of migrants and their pets is only determined at this moment.

some sort of hypertheoretical flooding mechanism.

What do you mean "hypertheoretical" flooding mechanisms? They work, they work 100% of the time and you don't have to have guys loading and unloading traps because they reset themselves. I can show you the design if you like (my version at least).

Also with the auto-flooding tunnels, you don't even have to know there's anything coming, you don't need to set an alert or have a burrow or pull a lever to be safe. Even the goblin's equipment ends up in an underwater compartment, so no dwarf tries to path to it during the siege.

If anything, manually locking a door or ordering troops around is "hypertheoretical" because if you are AFK or fall asleep that's not going to work, but the flooding machine carries on regardless.