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Republican

8 (7%)

Democrat

16 (13.9%)

Other Party (There are more than two? Amazing!)

20 (17.4%)

FUCK the political party system!

24 (20.9%)

I'm one of them foriegnerz and I'm just voting so I can annoy Heli

47 (40.9%)

Total Members Voted: 115

[GlyphGryph]

The problem is, said movements do have the ability to form their own parties. It may be a nascent party, and people like Gorjo who truly believe are the only people who can catapult it into a real party.

Of course, it doesn't help that thanks to the way our election system works, they have a LOT more power being a "movement" than they do being a party.

Anyways, the only REAL issue I have with the Tea Party is that I'm a rule of law guy. I don't support gutting the governments ability to effectively enforce a law because you don't believe in what the law does. That's against the whole premise of democracy and good governance. If you disagree about something, deal with it legally by changing how it works, not by cutting their purse strings when they are already short of the manpower and resources to achieve that which they have been tasked with by congress.

I am all for reducing regulation and red tape, but ONLY if it comes about with a sharp uptick and ability to enforce. Giving an agency orders to do a hundred different things and only funding them enough for a dozen gets you the worst of both worlds, and it pisses me off that so many tea party folks are perfectly okay with such underhanded tactics that render our government wasteful and incompetent while encouraging corruption and destroying the respect people have for it.

I believe the government should be small in scope, far smaller than it is, but not in ability. I don't believe it should be be turned into exactly the worthless waste the tea partiers already claim it is, I don't believe we should encourage crime and corruption to insure it is full of criminals, but that's not what Tea Partiers would get if they had their way.

[Leafsnail]

Thats the point, social ideologies are immaterial.  Fiscal conservatism is supposed to be the only key.

Then why support people with such extreme social ideologies?  By giving support to wingnuts, the movement is condoning their views.

[Heliman]

The "tea party" in america are just scared, ignorant old white people who want simple, laconic solutions to problems.

Ok I'm going to have to stop you right there. You are free to attack a party's principals, but not it's members. Such conduct only breeds flame wars and takes the discussion nowhere.

[Nikov]

An early "Tax Day" Tea-partier explains the Tea Party.

[Leafsnail]

Dear god, so vacuous.  Lots of parroting of the "grassroots" crap and the vague "limited government" line.

[Aqizzar]

An early "Tax Day" Tea-partier explains the Tea Party.

Google: HowTheWorldWorks > Find name: Lee Doren.
Google: Lee Doren > Find crapload of pages about him self-promoting sockpuppeted YouTube accounts and getting into whiny nerdfights with other bloggers.
Click links > Find Lee Doren getting verbally boxed silly by third-rate blowhard chumpenstein Cenk Ugyer.

Sounds like a paragon of intellectual discourse alright.

Oh hey, it gets better.  Apparently Lee Doren is a paid spokesman for "The Competitive Enterprise Institute", a conservative lobbying group founded in 1984, whose big claim to fame used to be defending tobacco companies in Congressional hearings in the 90s.

This has nothing to do with the Tea Party obviously, he just doesn't seem like the best guy to get an explanation from.

[froodle]

Here's how the Tea Party are valid. Most TPs are probably nice enough people who want a good and decent life for themselves and their children. They aren't the sharpest knives in the drawers, are extremely unsophisticated, and seem to know very little about how the world or government works. But they really do NOT want to destroy this country.

But they are being used by people who really do want to destroy this country.

As I'm sure everyone is aware, the TP is financed by billionaires. That's the only reason they've gotten any attention at all. It's in the best interests of those billionaires to destroy every social program we have. And that's exactly what they're doing. Every social safety net we have is quickly being savaged and/or eliminated. Real human beings are going to suffer and die because of these cuts.

As well, it's also in the best interest of those billionaires to keep their own taxes at zero AND to keep their own corporate welfare as high as possible.

For example ... In 2009, GE made $14 BILLION in US profits. Not sales, profit. The amount of tax they paid on that was zero. Nada. Not a thing. Not only that, but they got tax subsidies in the amount of $4.2 BILLION (yes, billion with a B).

GE pays far less in taxes than someone working at McDonalds, like many other big businesses. Smaller businesses, the middle class, and the working poor are who pays tax revenues.

So where does the Tea Party come in? Well, the "haves" need some kind of "grass roots" movement to point to for blame. The republicans wouldn't want to be blamed, would they? So, they chose a somewhat ignorant but well meaning group of people and say, "They're making us do this!" Just like they did with the evangelicals before them.

In fact, no group is going to make much a difference in US policy unless the powers that be want them to.

The TP is a ruse ... one of many with the same purpose.

And more thing ... The people in power right now (i.e. the ones with all the money, not the politicians), are also a cruel bunch. The 1990s proved we can all live OK and the rich can still make their money. But this time, it's different. They enjoy causing other human beings to suffer, and that's what they're doing. And the TP will be blamed, but they had nothing at all to do with it.

 

[TherosPherae]

Most TPs are probably nice enough people who want a good and decent life for themselves and their children.
As I'm sure everyone is aware, the TP is financed by billionaires.
The TP is a ruse
And the TP will be blamed

Please, for the love of my poor, laughing, aching gut, choose a different acronym.

[Heliman]

Here's how the Tea Party are valid. Most TPs are probably nice enough people who want a good and decent life for themselves and their children. They aren't the sharpest knives in the drawers, are extremely unsophisticated, and seem to know very little about how the world or government works. But they really do NOT want to destroy this country.

-SNIP-

So, they chose a somewhat ignorant but well meaning group of people and say, "They're making us do this!" Just like they did with the evangelicals before them.

-DOUBLESNIP-

And more thing ... The people in power right now (i.e. the ones with all the money, not the politicians), are also a cruel bunch. The 1990s proved we can all live OK and the rich can still make their money. But this time, it's different. They enjoy causing other human beings to suffer, and that's what they're doing. And the TP will be blamed, but they had nothing at all to do with it.

Again, Attack principals, not people.
If you want to say that "TP members don't have a good idea what their party is about" or "The TPM is financed by billionares", you can, so long as you provide proof. However, I when you call the TP members stupid on a whole, I draw the line because that helps convince no one.

Click links > Find Lee Doren getting verbally boxed silly by third-rate blowhard chumpenstein Cenk Ugyer.

I'm trying to remain unbiased in this debate, but wow was that was painful to watch. Seriously Lee should have at least prepped himself a little better on the major issues at hand before going in there.

[Leafsnail]

Again, Attack principals, not people.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What did he ever do to you, huh?

In all seriousness, it's a fair enough if you're talking about not insulting rank and file party members, but the thing is... not all groups necessarily stick to their own principles.  Or perhaps they're principles are so vague that they're impossible to argue with without bringing up the people who are attempting to put them into action (and therefore the specific implications of them).

[froodle]

Heliman, I really appreciate that you're trying to have civil discourse here, and I commend that and will try to play along.

The Tea Party is financed by billionaires ...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tea_Party#Financial_support'

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?_r=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz9OEURcpg0&feature=related

The Tea Party has no idea what their party stands for ...

http://hnn.us/articles/134859.html

I didn't call TPs stupid. I called them unsophisticated (aka naive) and ignorant (aka lacking in knowledge and information). Which isn't a personal attack, but a relevant observation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4SuzEWI_0o&feature=watch_response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQVfQCpYocQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_4if1x1pH8

[Heliman]

In all seriousness, it's a fair enough if you're talking about not insulting rank and file party members,

That is what I am referring to.

I didn't call TPs stupid. I called them unsophisticated (aka naive) and ignorant (aka lacking in knowledge and information). Which isn't a personal attack, but a relevant observation.

Ah, you kinda did when you said:

They aren't the sharpest knives in the drawers,

Many links! links for everyone!

Yes this is exactly what I'm looking for, good job finding all of this.

[Nikov]

An early "Tax Day" Tea-partier explains the Tea Party.

Google: HowTheWorldWorks > Find name: Lee Doren.
Google: Lee Doren > Find crapload of pages about him self-promoting sockpuppeted YouTube accounts and getting into whiny nerdfights with other bloggers.
Click links > Find Lee Doren getting verbally boxed silly by third-rate blowhard chumpenstein Cenk Ugyer.

Sounds like a paragon of intellectual discourse alright.

Oh hey, it gets better.  Apparently Lee Doren is a paid spokesman for "The Competitive Enterprise Institute", a conservative lobbying group founded in 1984, whose big claim to fame used to be defending tobacco companies in Congressional hearings in the 90s.

This has nothing to do with the Tea Party obviously, he just doesn't seem like the best guy to get an explanation from.

Again, Attack principals, not people.

Click links > Find Lee Doren getting verbally boxed silly by third-rate blowhard chumpenstein Cenk Ugyer.

I'm trying to remain unbiased in this debate, but wow was that was painful to watch. Seriously Lee should have at least prepped himself a little better on the major issues at hand before going in there.

Funny you mentioned that.

[froodle]

OK, maybe the "not the sharpest knives in the drawer" comment was uncalled for 

[freeformschooler]

OK, maybe the "not the sharpest knives in the drawer" comment was uncalled for 

I see you're an escaped lunatic so you might not know this by now, but typically as can be observed in Bay 12, during serious debates people take great offense (but mostly just regular offense) to people showing personal opinion where it does not belong, to the point where I've seen people basically shunned out of a debate if they don't know how to conduct one or conduct themselves in one. Note that this does not only apply to people supporting the most unpopular views, as is uncommon in some places on the internet.

For example, I may not agree with the political idealogies of, say, Jack Chick, but if there's a serious debate going on about his tracts (and not just vitrol rage threads) you'll be likely to see me just as any other tell a person off when their debate even simply includes how intensely they hate the man.