Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[kaenneth]

A. The horse and buggy has some advantages over cars. Ask any environmentalist

Off topic, but this is very wrong.

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/578.html

"The normal city horse produced between fifteen and thirty-five pounds of manure a day..."

"Citizens frequently complained about the "pulverized horse dung" which blew into their faces..."

http://www.banhdc.org/archives/ch-hist-19711000.html

"Benjamin Franklin complained in the late eighteenth century of the “thundering of coaches, chariots, chaises, waggons, drays and the whole fraternity of noise” that assailed the ears of Philadelphians."

http://www.skytran.net/18EnergyEff/Relative%20Pollution.htm

"Feeding each horse consumed 5 acres of land per year."

"In 1880, an average of 41 dead horses (1,300 pound each) had to be carted from the streets each day (15,000 annual)."

[iron_general]

That could be at least mostly alleviated by either:
- Make workshops have specific jobs for specific materials (ie Make Marble Crafts)
- Add a filter to workshops that either allows or denies stone at that workshop (could also be done on a jobwise basis in the manager)

Both of which have been suggested before, but work well here as well.

That would help, but would mean that one might not be able to contruct walls and crafts of the same material at the same time without counting the number stones of that type on the stocks screen. There could still be a problem. One solution would be for the game to reserve a number of stone (but not any in particular) for construction tasks. to exemplify, one posesses 17 marble stones, designates a 1*15 wall and has a crafter making mugs. If the crafter used two marble stones the workshop would disallow marble for its tasks.

[Lav]

I'm opposed to stone reservation idea.

If the player has little stone of a certain kind, he knows this. If he doesn't, he can always check up (in fact, current building screen shows how much stone of each type is there, though it's limited to 99). If he make orders that will use too much stone compared to what he has... well, the same thing will happen as if he would order construction of 100 breastplates while having only 40 steel bars in stock. Note however that the player can order those 100 breastplates and even have them completed - if his smelters are currently working 24/7 to produce those steel bars. So the player should be perfectly capable of designating some area to dig up and ordering a construction to be built from stone that will be dug from that area. If at some moment in time there's not enough stone - construction should be suspended (and probably unsuspended automatically after some small period of time, like it's now with job orders).

[Kogut]

Actually, a simpler suggestion:

1. Remove a 10-tile limit on size when building walls, floors and other similar junk. The restriction may be left in place for bridges, though.

Great idea.

[iron_general]

I'm opposed to stone reservation idea.

If the player has little stone of a certain kind, he knows this. If he doesn't, he can always check up (in fact, current building screen shows how much stone of each type is there, though it's limited to 99). If he make orders that will use too much stone compared to what he has... well, the same thing will happen as if he would order construction of 100 breastplates while having only 40 steel bars in stock. Note however that the player can order those 100 breastplates and even have them completed - if his smelters are currently working 24/7 to produce those steel bars. So the player should be perfectly capable of designating some area to dig up and ordering a construction to be built from stone that will be dug from that area. If at some moment in time there's not enough stone - construction should be suspended (and probably unsuspended automatically after some small period of time, like it's now with job orders).

This does have merit, though I don't see why you oppose stone "reservation". While it might take a few more lines of code, it would decrease the amount of micromanaging for the player.

[JanusTwoface]

This does have merit, though I don't see why you oppose stone "reservation". While it might take a few more lines of code, it would decrease the amount of micromanaging for the player.

At least on my end, I would love to be able to designate a gigantic wall of some material before I've actually gotten around to digging out enough of the material. As I dig out more, the dwarves can carry it off to build the wall.

Perhaps an addition to the record keeper's screen showing how much of a material has currently been requested but not allocated? That way you can go see how much of a particular stone the dwarves want you to procure.

[Elone]

You know, even the current system would be easier if for one little detail. Imagine this.

Code: [Select]

...X...
...X...
...X...
XXXXXXX
...X...
...X...
...X...
You can see two straight wall lines in this image, one vertical and one horizontal. But we cannot design them as such... because they overlap. We can place one of them normally. But we HAVE to place the other one in TWO passes... instead of being able to plant it OVER the first one, with the overlapping square being instantly canceled/unapplied, while the rest of fitting squares is approved. Coupled with the game's inability to remember the lengths of the placed walls just a moment ago... this is a big problem.

Agree?

[Kogut]

Maybe option: allow to designate construction using any material on map.

[iron_general]

This does have merit, though I don't see why you oppose stone "reservation". While it might take a few more lines of code, it would decrease the amount of micromanaging for the player.

At least on my end, I would love to be able to designate a gigantic wall of some material before I've actually gotten around to digging out enough of the material. As I dig out more, the dwarves can carry it off to build the wall.

Perhaps an addition to the record keeper's screen showing how much of a material has currently been requested but not allocated? That way you can go see how much of a particular stone the dwarves want you to procure.

Good points, perhaps there should be a switch for reserving stone after a designation is made on the material selection screen. Then the player can decide whats best for his/her situation.

[GreatWyrmGold]

A. The horse and buggy has some advantages over cars. Ask any environmentalist

Off topic, but this is very wrong.

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/578.html

"The normal city horse produced between fifteen and thirty-five pounds of manure a day..."

"Citizens frequently complained about the "pulverized horse dung" which blew into their faces..."

http://www.banhdc.org/archives/ch-hist-19711000.html

"Benjamin Franklin complained in the late eighteenth century of the “thundering of coaches, chariots, chaises, waggons, drays and the whole fraternity of noise” that assailed the ears of Philadelphians."

http://www.skytran.net/18EnergyEff/Relative%20Pollution.htm

"Feeding each horse consumed 5 acres of land per year."

"In 1880, an average of 41 dead horses (1,300 pound each) had to be carted from the streets each day (15,000 annual)."

Global.
Warming.
And gas prices. For farmers, letting a horse graze on a few acres of land might be cheaper than buying gas, and the manure for when the horse is off-duty helps fertilize the land for when it is no longer fallow.

I didn't say that horses-and-buggies were superior, just that they weren't inferior in every way. Just like books have some advantages over computers even though computers have more advantages, or how spears have some over swords.

And if you disagree, I'll shut up and get on topic if you do.

[Artanis00]

Global.
Warming.
And gas prices. For farmers, letting a horse graze on a few acres of land might be cheaper than buying gas, and the manure for when the horse is off-duty helps fertilize the land for when it is no longer fallow.

I didn't say that horses-and-buggies were superior, just that they weren't inferior in every way. Just like books have some advantages over computers even though computers have more advantages, or how spears have some over swords.

And if you disagree, I'll shut up and get on topic if you do.

Soil erosion.
Increased soil salinity (to name a few impacts of heavy farming).
And feed prices. For the modern human, keeping and maintaining a car on a few square feet of land might be cheaper than buying feed and sufficient space for a horse, and the car can travel farther and faster without need for resting.

I'm saying that horses-and-buggies are strictly inferior to the internal combustion engine. Just like stone tablets are strictly inferior to books, or how swords are strictly inferior to firearms.

In short, I disagree. Shut up and get back on topic.

[King of the Underworld]

I always like to make castles and towers on the surface for defense. This is a must to me.

[Reelyanoob]

I'm saying that horses-and-buggies are strictly inferior to the internal combustion engine. Just like stone tablets are strictly inferior to books, or how swords are strictly inferior to firearms.

In short, I disagree. Shut up and get back on topic.

Stone tablets are a lot more durable than books, they last 1000's of years. You're picking and choosing your characteristics for comparison.

Also, firearms need to be loaded, can jam and misfire. Swords are always ready to go. So how 'strictly' inferior are they? Say you're fighting underwater, most gun's won't like that and will need to be dried out before firing, but a sword's fine.

And since Horse and Buggy produces far less CO2 emissions that a car, that's nowhere near 'strictly' either. Tell that to the third world people who can't afford cars over oxen etc. And if they did have them, they lose out a valuable source of fertilizer and cooking fuel (yes, a significant proportion of the third world burn dung for cooking)

Strictly inferior implies (no ASSERTS) inferior in every way. You have to be sure there's not even one small area where the 'inferior' item is better, or you FAIL.

[Ethicalfive]

Lets just all agree cars arn't very dwarflike and so are inferior.

On the topic. I'd love to see construction designations be brought inline with the dig designations. Be it reserving or not reserving stone beforehand, doesn't bother me so much as the umkh-athon just for 1 x 10by10 max segment.

I'd also like to be able to put designations over blocked areas and have those blocked areas just not place a tile rather than having to get your woodcutter/deconstruct or build 2 seperate sections around the obstruction.

I had toyed around with making the construction designations less painful in my utility(linked below in sig) by auto expanding pre-entered construction designations if anyone wants to play with it.

[greenskye]

A. The horse and buggy has some advantages over cars. Ask any environmentalist

Off topic, but this is very wrong.

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/578.html

"The normal city horse produced between fifteen and thirty-five pounds of manure a day..."

-snip-

It's people like you that make the DF community so great. On most other forums this would have ended in some sort of personal attack. Not DF though. No, DF players do research on the most random things in order to prove an errant example wrong.