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Author Topic: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK  (Read 4597 times)

malkomk

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[PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« on: April 06, 2011, 03:14:20 pm »

The Bay 12 MUCK Project
[/b]

This project aims to create a MUCK for the Bay 12 community. MUCK stands for Multi-User Construction Kit (at least, that's my favourite backronym for it) and it is similiar to a MUD, except the emphasis is more on roleplay and world building than on combat and experience point gaining. Note that the MUCK is not up yet.

Worlds - The MUCK will have a world that is set in a Dwarf Fortress dwarf fort. This will hopefully allow for some interesting roleplay as various dwarves of the fort. I also hope to have a world that is a general sandbox (or should I say muckbox) for people to test out ideas in, practice building and roleplay, et cetera. The worlds will all be fairly small. What I can create myself is definitely under a thousand rooms, and I plan to keep the worlds small to encourage roleplay. If you and a couple of friends want to create your own world - perhaps your own DF fort, a swords and sorcery area, et cetera, contact a admin.

Hosting - The MUCK will currently be hosted from my computer via Hamachi since I can't get port forwarding to work. I have a Intel iMac that is running Windows 7 most of the time and a OK internet connection (better than dial-up, but not fiber-optic or anything like that.)

More info to come soon. If you'd like to help, you will be able to once everything is up and running, provided you're a good builder and you stick to the rules.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 05:43:06 pm by malkomk »
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malkomk

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 03:14:45 pm »

Placeholding.
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malkomk

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 03:15:02 pm »

Placeholding. (I really need to get a avatar!)
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woose1

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 03:18:59 pm »

This looks interesting.

However...

I don't know if I speak for everyone here, but, I think RP has never really been one of Bay12's strong points, other than pseudo-joking comments written in a silly inflection during Mafia games or the like. It could work, but definitely not one of my things.

(Oh, and SS13 as well. But only a few people on there actually RP, and only to prevent wanton murder via toolbox.)
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malkomk

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 03:38:14 pm »

This looks interesting.

However...

I don't know if I speak for everyone here, but, I think RP has never really been one of Bay12's strong points, other than pseudo-joking comments written in a silly inflection during Mafia games or the like. It could work, but definitely not one of my things.

(Oh, and SS13 as well. But only a few people on there actually RP, and only to prevent wanton murder via toolbox.)
You have never been to Baystation 12 my friend, it is i believe a Bay 12 Space Station 13 variant, it heavily encourages RP and we hardly see much griefing, everyone always says the Goons servers are way worse than it is.

Also, there have been a number of people doing quite good RP in community/succession forts.

Also, news update! It seems there is a Windows version of the Fuzzball TinyMUCK code. DL'ing now!

EDIT: Check out the subforum "Forum Games and Roleplaying". Roleplaying. See that?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 03:40:14 pm by malkomk »
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woose1

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 03:47:58 pm »

stuff
You have never been to Baystation 12 my friend, it is i believe a Bay 12 Space Station 13 variant, it heavily encourages RP and we hardly see much griefing, everyone always says the Goons servers are way worse than it is.
It's true I haven't been on for a while, but in my experience only 4 or 5 people on there ever seriously did RP, and the rest lightly stuck to their roles but quickly reverted back to 'caged animal' mode when shit hit the fan. Even then it's nothing compared to some of the other MUCK/MUD's I've seen linked here.

Also, there have been a number of people doing quite good RP in community/succession forts.
Good point, I didn't think of that. Then again, I never read community forts.  :P
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beorn080

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 04:05:26 pm »

Personally, I'd rather do a MUD or a MUSH over a MUCK. Part of DF is dealing with the wildlife after all. Plus, with HellMOO being turned into the Mafia Wars of MUSH's, I think a lot of people are gonna be looking for something else to do.

As for BS12, RP is generally good. I'll admit that there isn't always a good amount of variety in the RP, but at minimum it tends to be solid "Professional hand picked crew work together in their jobs to save the station."
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Fayrik

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 04:07:20 pm »

As a MU* Admin myself, I feel obliged to put in my thoughts.

First thing that strikes me is:
Anyway, I thought that there could be several worlds, all rather small, and if someone wanted to found their own world, they could talk to the admins about it. Thus we could have a Star Trek world, maybe a world or two for RP within a Dwarf Fortress fort (not made from a real DF map, just set up to be a dwarf fortress), a classic swords and sorcery world, et cetera.
This seems like a bit of a dangerously difficult system for anyone to run. At the first hurdle, you're running the risk of watering down your content.
There already are Star Trek MUDs out there, one which, would probably be a bit more comprehensive than this. You don't want to make a Star Trek and Dwarf Fortress MU*, since you'll be draining the Dwarf Fortress aspect to put into the Star Trek one, which will be lost effort, because the other MUDs will have beaten you to the cake. So to speak.
And yes, I realise DF and ST where not your only examples, but I figured it would be easier to use them, since you said them.

Secondly, is this:
So I've been looking for a good fantasy MUCK for a while, but it seems that 99% of MUCKs are all about "anthropomorphic" characters, or "animal people", or at least allow these characters in. Now, I really dislike that. I don't want to play with a bunch of furballs (no offense to people who actually like the things...) And after thinking a while I decided that the Bay 12 community has a Space Station 13 server and variant, so why not get our own MUCK?
From what I can tell, your aim is to keep it entirely fur-free. This could be a problem here. Personally, I make and play characters on merit of personality, and not the amount of hair that their skin can grow, but I've noticed this forum has a very vague mix of both sides. Enforcing one way or the other will probably only hurt your chances.
Although, I fully realise, it's thin ice whatever path you chose with this one.

As for the rest of it. Your computer doesn't sound like the most reliable host. You have a duel boot, so it'll only be accessible when you're online, and on Windows. I don't have Hamachi, and I don't plan on getting it.
And, the biggest problem, IMMing and Building a MU* is no small task, and fobbing it off on the players probably won't end too well, interest building will bring better staff at the beginning and get you going faster.
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So THIS is how migrations start.
"Hey, dude, there's this crazy bastard digging in the ground for stuff. Let's go watch."

malkomk

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2011, 05:32:25 pm »

As a MU* Admin myself, I feel obliged to put in my thoughts.
-snip-
And, the biggest problem, IMMing and Building a MU* is no small task, and fobbing it off on the players probably won't end too well, interest building will bring better staff at the beginning and get you going faster.

First thing first, you sound like you are coming from a MUD background. MUDs are almost always (lets say 99.9%) precreated worlds, with the players having no hand in creating the world at all. A large part of a MUCK is that world creation is more accessible to players. People will make and customize their own houses, et cetera. I believe this is a big part of the fun. Why do I think you come from a background of MUDs? Look at the bottom of your post.
Quote
...IMMing and Building a MU* is no small task...
IMMing? What do you mean? I've never, ever heard of the term used in connection with a MUCK. However the abbreviation sounds to me to have something to do with Immortals, definitely a MUD feature. Also, since when is this a MU* and not a MUCK?

Let's move on to your first point.
Quote
There are already Star Trek MUDs out there, one which, would probably be a bit more comprehensive than this. You don't want to make a Star Trek and Dwarf Fortress MU*, since you'll be draining the Dwarf Fortress aspect to put into the Star Trek one, which will be lost effort, because the other MUDs will have beaten you to the cake. So to speak. (I typed this one manually, forgive spelling errors)
I have no intention of making a Star Trek world myself. It was *just a example*. The idea is that the players and the Bay 12 community will have a hand in building the worlds. If someone wants to make a world and he's a good builder, he should find some friends and then contact one of the admins, who will give him a world portal from the world central. I will definitely have a hand in creating worlds, but other people, should they prove good builders, will be allowed to help out. I hope this answers your question.

Second point:
Quote
From what I can tell, your aim is to keep it entirely fur-free. This could be a problem here. Personally, I make and play characters on merit of personality, and not the amount of hair that their skin can grow, but I've noticed this forum has a very vague mix of both sides. Enforcing one way or the other will probably only hurt your chances.
Although, I fully realise, it's thin ice whatever path you chose with this one.
Number one, there are so many fur-only MUCKs out there (seriously, there are at least two dozen) that I'm sure people who want a all-fur environment will move there.
Number two, since I wrote that first post, I've had a idea for this. If I get enough volunteers I can establish a furry area/world where furry characters are allowed and encouraged. There would of course still be non-fur worlds where people like me can play without the furry people. Hope this answers your point.

Quote
Your computer doesn't sound like the most reliable host. You have a duel boot, so it'll only be accessible when you're online, and on Windows. I don't have Hamachi, and I don't plan on getting it.
I am almost always running windows. Like, 99% of the time. I'm pretty sure that I could host it as long as there are only a small number of players, especially since text only games don't put as much load on your CPU as, say, a Minecraft server would. Also, hosting it myself would only be a temporary measure. I hope to eventually find a way to get it onto a more reliable host, but for the beginning I'm pretty sure that hosting it myself will work just fine.
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malkomk

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2011, 05:43:31 pm »

OP updated. About to go get things going.
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lordcooper

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2011, 05:55:43 pm »

I won't be investing myself in this until I can see at least a moderate amount of success.

Best of luck, and I'll be watching  :)
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malkomk

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 06:04:32 pm »

I won't be investing myself in this until I can see at least a moderate amount of success.

Best of luck, and I'll be watching  :)
Thanks mate.

Confirmed that this is going to have to run on Hamachi.
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Fayrik

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2011, 06:27:08 pm »

Argh, just lost half a post. >.>

First thing first, you sound like you are coming from a MUD background. MUDs are almost always (lets say 99.9%) precreated worlds, with the players having no hand in creating the world at all. A large part of a MUCK is that world creation is more accessible to players. People will make and customize their own houses, et cetera. I believe this is a big part of the fun. Why do I think you come from a background of MUDs? Look at the bottom of your post.
Actually I come from more of a MUCK background, but as I programmed my system from the ground up, it falls somewhere inbetween the two, thus my constant use of the term MU*.

Let's move on to your first point.
There already are Star Trek MUDs out there, one which, would probably be a bit more comprehensive than this. You don't want to make a Star Trek and Dwarf Fortress MU*, since you'll be draining the Dwarf Fortress aspect to put into the Star Trek one, which will be lost effort, because the other MUDs will have beaten you to the cake. So to speak.
I have no intention of making a Star Trek world myself. It was *just a example*.
And yes, I realise DF and ST where not your only examples, but I figured it would be easier to use them, since you said them.
The idea is that the players and the Bay 12 community will have a hand in building the worlds. If someone wants to make a world and he's a good builder, he should find some friends and then contact one of the admins, who will give him a world portal from the world central. I will definitely have a hand in creating worlds, but other people, should they prove good builders, will be allowed to help out. I hope this answers your question.
Okay, I'll try and strip off all the vaugeness of the point here.
I like the idea of players acting as builders, if they can. However, if a player wants to build a Star Trek world, why don't they go and make their own MU*?
That way, the MU*-- Sorry, MUCK's community is much more focused on what they're doing. Splintering the community, sadly, does not work very well. And I'm saying this from experience.

Second point:
Number one, there are so many fur-only MUCKs out there (seriously, there are at least two dozen) that I'm sure people who want a all-fur environment will move there.
Number two, since I wrote that first post, I've had a idea for this. If I get enough volunteers I can establish a furry area/world where furry characters are allowed and encouraged. There would of course still be non-fur worlds where people like me can play without the furry people. Hope this answers your point.
All this does is state "standard practice" and evade my point. (I'm sorry, I'm not saying you're going out of your way to avoid me, but you've answered a question I wasn't asking.)
The Bay12 community is very intergrated between "fur" and "non-fur".

Again, in an attempt to clarify my posts.
Rather than creating hundreds of seperate worlds to water down the direction of the mud, and seperate the community, it makes more sense to me that we just have the Dwarf Fortress world that doesn't have the discrimination between the genres.
Some people plays Dwarves, some people play Elves... Some people play as Tigermen Tribesmen.

I am almost always running windows. Like, 99% of the time. I'm pretty sure that I could host it as long as there are only a small number of players, especially since text only games don't put as much load on your CPU as, say, a Minecraft server would. Also, hosting it myself would only be a temporary measure. I hope to eventually find a way to get it onto a more reliable host, but for the beginning I'm pretty sure that hosting it myself will work just fine.
In that case, there's two questions I have to ask. Why is OSX on there at all? (Alright, this question isn't as important. It probably shipped with it or something.)
But more importantly, if this is a standard home computer, why is it on 24/7?

...And, for the love of all that's holy: Take a look at this site.
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So THIS is how migrations start.
"Hey, dude, there's this crazy bastard digging in the ground for stuff. Let's go watch."

Sowelu

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2011, 06:45:24 pm »

"MUCKs are not MU*s?"  Apples aren't fruit?

Also, if you're omg hate furries, I guess you'll be ignoring like 90% of the existing programs for the system since that's who wrote 'em.  Actually, scratch that, they wrote MPI and I think MUF anyway.  Hell one of the major advantages of MUCK over MUSH/MOO is the easy portability of programs.  If you wanted ease of programming from scratch, you'd use something with a sensible C-like language instead of a cracktastic Forth-based system (as much god-damn fun as it might be).

I mean if you really want some crack coders I could take a swing at a thing or two, I'm pretty god damn experienced.  Hell for a little while I maintained the Terraform program, which was uh...well let's just compare it to Minecraft in terms of infinite random terrain with biomes included that's generated and collected on the fly, multitile random features, ability to build houses etc...for a while I even had it generating semirandom civilizations and their cities on various random planets around stars in infinite space, and I was poking at a resource system in another, similar engine.

Not like I needed a life anyway, and I basically can't turn down a chance to program MUCK code.  >.>

Also keep in mind that critter-men are...well, not a huge part of DF, but they're certainly THERE.  They're adding new ones for every sponsorship animal, even.
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Fayrik

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Re: [PROJECT/SUGGESTION] Bay 12 MUCK
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2011, 06:50:31 pm »

"MUCKs are not MU*s?"  Apples aren't fruit?
Wait, who was it that said that?

Also, if you're omg hate furries, I guess you'll be ignoring like 90% of the existing programs for the system since that's who wrote 'em.
Was going to bring this up, but I figured that forum's community would be a bigger issue.

They're adding new ones for every sponsorship animal, even.
So, there's more choice then just Tigermen slaves then! Heh.
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So THIS is how migrations start.
"Hey, dude, there's this crazy bastard digging in the ground for stuff. Let's go watch."
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