I think you're just bitter because Cha and Int don't do anything for some characters, so lots of people are using them as dump stats. 
Yes. Yes I am.
Well, that's not really the players' faults. I see you're trying to do something about it, but I don't think it's working especially well. More on that below.
Anyway, maybe. But ask yourself this: If you see ten guys walk into a bar, 8 of them look like shit, the other two look really good, and one of the good looking persons walks up to you and tries to sell something on behalf of the other good looking person, wouldn't you be kinda... I don't know, bothered by all the shit-faces even if the thing is coming from the nicer looking ones? I mean, you know they're part of the same group, unless you're planning to get to know them, I'm pretty sure you'd judge them on behalf of their group.
Well yes, but only if it's actually on behalf of the group. There's obviously
some amount of "well he's with them so he's one of them," but if an especially good-looking swordsman wants to buy a new sword so he can use a new sword, I'm not sure how much sense it makes for the shopkeeper to think to himself "Well this
incredibly attractive man is hanging out with that robed horse manure over there, so I'm not so sure how much I like him anymore."
Also, that has also got a problem: you could just have a sort of network of players, giving their items to the second-best looking and having the best looking sell them.
Well, yes, but that would require a degree of selflessness and coordination I'm not sure we've got. Also, if the charismatic ones are the people getting all the stuff, I'd say it's accomplished at least some of its goal already.
Problem is that the other two alternatives are picking one attribute, and having people complain that it's the wrong one, or having both at normal rate, and having them advance much faster. I picked the lesser, easier of the three that will cause less complaints.
They don't advance any faster, because advancing both Agi and Str isn't any faster than advancing either alone. Think about it.
Samuel the Strong pumps Strength and uses longswords. Alice the Agile pumps Agility and also uses longswords. Burt the Balanced splits both evenly, and once again uses longswords.
Starting out, they might look like this:
Samuel: Str 30, Agi 10; Longsword bonus = [+2 +0] / 2 = +1
Alice: Str 10, Agi 30; Longsword bonus = [+0 +2] / 2 = +1
Burt: Str 20, Agi 20; Longsword bonus = [+1 +1] / 2 = +1
Perfectly even. If Alice or Samuel had under-10 Agi or Str it'd be lower, but that's a specific and fairly obvious thing for them to correct and
then keep whoring their respective stat. It's only an issue if they're pumping those stats at the absolute exclusion of anything else.
So later on, when they're nice and high level, they might look like this:
Samuel: Str 90, Agi 10; Longsword bonus = [+8 +0] / 2 = +4
Alice: Str 10, Agi 90; Longsword bonus = [+0 +8] / 2 = +4
Burt: Str 50, Agi 50; Longsword bonus = [+4 +4] / 2 = +4
Once again, completely even. There's no reason Burt would advance his Str or Agi faster than the other two, because attributes always cost a flat amount, and there's no reason the formula would change if you dropped the divided by 2 part.
On the other hand, if Samuel is using hammers and Alice is using daggers, but Burt's still using longswords:
Samuel: Str 90, Agi 10; Hammer bonus = [+8] = +8
Alice: Str 10, Agi 90; Dagger bonus = [+8] = +8
Burt: Str 50, Agi 50; Longsword bonus = [+4 +4] / 2 = +4
We can see Burt's at a decided disadvantage. Granted, he's both got a high dodge rating and is able to wear heavy armor, which should stack somewhat multiplicatively, but he's still giving up +4 attack to have [+4 dodge and +200 encumbrance] as opposed to [+8 dodge] or [+400 encumbrance].
Anyway, this has tired me out a bit, but luckily I'd assembled a table beforehand, so let's look at that a moment:
| Str | Agi | Tuf | Int | Cha |
| IronyOwl | 10 | 10 | 12 | 31 | 10 |
| TolyK | 10 | 11 | 18 | 30 | 0 |
| Serious | 25 | 10 | 30 | 0 | 0 |
| Draignean | 20 | 20 | 25 | 0 | 2 |
| Darvi | 5 | 15 | 10 | 15 | 20 |
| Dwarmin | 20 | 20 | 10 | 15 | 0 |
| Asilidae | 15 | 20 | 10 | 20 | 0 |
| Taricus | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 25 |
| Average | 14.375 | 14.5 | 15.625 | 15.125 | 7.125 |
Now, a couple things should immediately come to mind.
The first is that everyone but Darvi has 10+ Str, and
everyone has 10+ Agi and Toughness. Int, on the other hand, is largely hit and miss- most people have either a lot or none at all. Charisma is similarly divided between pumping it up and leaving it to rot- I'm the only one who thought it would be worthwhile to have 10.
So what we can learn from this is that defensive stats (Agi and Tuf) are useful to everyone, while specific stats (Int and Cha) are all or nothing. Strength is always useful in at least modest quantities, but beyond that is either all or nothing.
THUS, we seem to have learned something about what the effects on various stats do.
Stats that keep you alive are always in demand, at least to a point. Toughness' keeping you alive while mortally wounded is a perfect example of the "to a point" function, while Agility's dodge bonus is a good example of "more is always better."
Stats that perform some vital function, whether through negating horrible penalties or giving you some kind of benefit, are in demand up to a point. Strength's ability to carry your own gear is a good example of the avoiding crippling penalties sort; its ability to carry more loot is probably an example of "useful but probably not worth it relative to other benefits."
Stats that have no function unless you're using them are all or nothing- you pump them up when that's what your character does, and leave them to rot when that's not what your character does.
THEREFORE, the point of all this is fairly simple- if you want people to be penalized for using dump stats, make sure every stat has some defensive function. Maybe Int should be the roll used to avoid/resist spellcasting. Maybe Cha should defend against, um, being lied to or supernatural but non-spell attacks, or even environmental hazards because stop asking questions. Or it could lower your chances of being attacked, or something. That way, anyone who used a dump stat would have some critical, relevant weakness to make up for how awesome they were elsewhere.
The secondary point is that utility is a decent backup function. The selling loot portion of Cha might fit under this; I don't know. I'll admit it's harder to think of something equivalent to Str's encumbrance increases.
The final point is that stats which do nothing but what you use them for are either whored out or left to rot; avoid stats like that. You're trying, of course, but I'm not sure making Crafting use Int and Cha is going to do that, or that penalizing the whole group's negotiations will either.
With regards to ninja discussions regarding servant troupes:
1. If you're attractive and all your slaves are ugly as sin, it makes more sense for the shopkeeper to go "Eh, this nobleman's incredibly convincing... but does he have to drag this disgusting rabble around with him? I dunno how much I like him anymore."
2. At the very least, it's likely we'd get a reputation for being Whatsisface and His Servants, or
very peculiar scam artists/tricksters.
Author
Topic: The Westlands RTD: Turn 42: Final "Turn". Game ended. (Read 153616 times)