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[Tarran]

- Intelligence dependency in Misc skills is a bad idea. It makes Intelligence overpowered: people with minmaxed Intelligence will have bonuses to bartering, talking, forging swords, picking locks AND doing magic. That's just wrong.

But do remember that it will be cut in half since the misc schools all need a second attributes. Also, if the player min/maxes too much, they will severely weaken their character. Having too little strength makes you rubbish with strength weapons and have too little carrying capacity. Have little agility and you will get hit a lot and have trouble using agility weapons. Having low charisma ruins the background roll for selling or buying (not that seriously though. Changing it to make charisma more important for bartering right now). Having too little toughness makes you a glass cannon.

- Players don't have "+1HP for every 5 Strength over 10" and "+2HP for every 5 Toughness" bonuses on them.

Derp. Forgot.

[IronyOwl]

Str gives 5 HP, 25 carrying capacity, and +0.5 weapon skill per 5 points.

Wrong. Str gives +1 HP per 5 points.

Oh, oops.

This is what I meant it to be. Higher agility=better dodge=less or no chance to get hit by those spells.

It's not as big an issue with the agility nerf, but you're still looking at someone with 70 Agi being 100% immune to any sort of non-damaging hostile magic. 70 Agi isn't exactly a trivial feat, of course, but we're not talking "unlikely" or "strong against," we're talking fire elemental vs fireball level immune. It's also not like they'd be giving up a lot to achieve that- they'd be specialized, certainly, but they'd still be very good at both dodging other spells and weapons, and attacking with certain weapon types.

I guess they'd be weak to AoE, though.

[Tarran]

This is what I meant it to be. Higher agility=better dodge=less or no chance to get hit by those spells.

It's not as big an issue with the agility nerf, but you're still looking at someone with 70 Agi being 100% immune to any sort of non-damaging hostile magic. 70 Agi isn't exactly a trivial feat, of course, but we're not talking "unlikely" or "strong against," we're talking fire elemental vs fireball level immune.

That's intentional. Those spells are supposed to be non-offensive, so they aren't exactly very good at trapping people who dodge out of the way at lightning speed. Can you polymorph a cheetah going at maximum speed sideways? Not really. Can you shoot it? Possibly.

Besides, I can't let you guys go polymorphing or trapping in stone everything you come across, can I?

I guess they'd be weak to AoE, though.

Yep. AoE hits everything.

[Darvi]

Unless they have evasion. Then they are immune to AoE 50% of the time.

[Tarran]

Unless they have evasion. Then they are immune to AoE 50% of the time.

...Where did you get that from? Whatever, wherever you got it from, it's wrong. There's a line of text in the Combat spoiler that specifically says "The attacker always hits.".

[Darvi]

DnD Player's Handbook 3.5E

Of course this doesn't apply to all AoE's , but most is good enough for me.

[Tarran]

That has nothing to do with this game. I took 0% of my rules directly from the DnD handbook. >_>

[Darvi]

Never said they were.

[Tarran]

You never said you weren't. >_>

On a side-note, as I'm modifying the sheets, I notice that Serious has ridiculous HP. D:

Oh well, I'll be sure to include a lot of melee-resistant, magic vulnerable enemies and a lot of talking to make him pay for his choices.

[SeriousConcentrate]

That's fine, I'm not going to argue about it. Ashton's meant to tank for the squishier party members anyway. ^^

Out of curiosity, how much HP do I have? Unless I messed up the math somewhere, I think my HP only went from 36 to 45.

[Tarran]

I mean, goddamn, 52 HP. That's nearly as much as a Durnneran.

Your character scares me. He might be able to beat, oh I don't know, the freaking Hulk in a melee fight.

[Darvi]

*hands Ashton a piece of paper with "Flip this paper around" written on both sides*

[SeriousConcentrate]

Eh, maybe, but that's all he's useful for, which is all I want out of him. He's limited to attacking one foe at a time and can't do anything but use his spear, wrestle, and defend. He's good on offense and can soak a lot of damage between his health and armor but with his poor agility he's not going to be doing a lot of dodging, and anything involving charisma and intelligence is doomed to failure. For now, anyway. I'll probably get Agility up to 20 and then start working on Charisma...

@Ninja Darvi: Yep. ^^;

[HmH]

- Intelligence dependency in Misc skills is a bad idea. It makes Intelligence overpowered: people with minmaxed Intelligence will have bonuses to bartering, talking, forging swords, picking locks AND doing magic. That's just wrong.

But do remember that it will be cut in half since the misc schools all need a second attributes.

That only makes it worse. People with 40 Intelligence willl have a +1 bonus, just like people with 40 Charisma and people with 20 Intelligence/20 Charisma. Why should I put points into Charisma when putting them into Intelligence will yield the same results?

[Tarran]

- Intelligence dependency in Misc skills is a bad idea. It makes Intelligence overpowered: people with minmaxed Intelligence will have bonuses to bartering, talking, forging swords, picking locks AND doing magic. That's just wrong.

But do remember that it will be cut in half since the misc schools all need a second attributes.

That only makes it worse. People with 40 Intelligence willl have a +1 bonus, just like people with 40 Charisma and people with 20 Intelligence/20 Charisma. Why should I put points into Charisma when putting them into Intelligence will yield the same results?

Following an only-int route will leave your character very, very weak compared to others. What you gain in skill bonuses, you suffer in actually being able to fight. With a lack of agility, you get hit very often. With a lack of strength, you cannot carry what you buy. With a lack of toughness, you die quickly. With a lack of charisma, you might as well say goodbye to selling, buying, or even talking. Think this through. Spells are not the only thing around. Sure, you will mince anything that walks around the block, but there will come a time where a monster will be very resistant to magic, or a time where a monster will get into melee, or where you need to talk your way out of getting mauled, or where you are affected by a poison, or when you cannot carry the fabulous loot. When that time comes, you will wish you had gotten some other attribute.

Obviously those will rarely happen since the other members of your group are specialized, but there's absolutely no way to avoid that.

Besides, that's only in the later stages. Early on, it's more profitable to put 10 points into charisma, instead of intelligence; it takes 20 int to overcome the -2 penalty. And even in the late game, you will suffer, since attribute points get rarer and rarer, you will have a harder and harder time trying to adapt to what is needed if you are highly specialized. I promise, I will make you pay for specializing.

Also, bartering has a background formula. I said this before. Charisma plays a large role in this.

If the above is poorly worded, then I'm sorry, it's late here and I'm not really in the right mood or state of mind to argue. Regardless, I'm not changing it until It proves itself to be actually game breaking. I've balanced it enough. Intelligence has no real secondary bonuses, so it gets this as it's secondary. Charisma doesn't get anything, but when you need it, you will likely really need it.