Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dragonshardz]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

But three lefts do!

[Criptfeind]

Stuff

That is all well and good, but if we can not find a the person or persons at fault we can not add the social pressure to try to squish such stuff from our society.

[Phmcw]

The UN's chief envoy to Afghanistan, Staffan de Mistura, blamed Friday's violence in the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif on the Florida pastor who burnt the Koran on 20 March.

"I don't think we should be blaming any Afghan," Mr de Mistura said. "We should be blaming the person who produced the news - the one who burned the Koran. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from offending culture, religion, traditions."

This however, is ridiculous. UN is not wanted in the region and should leave. There is such things as "an enemy". You were going into enemy territory, and while this pastor was being stupid, the murderers are clearly to blame for the murder.
I think the error is to see responsibility as something material. You can't have the entirety of something if something else have a part. I think it's a mistake : you can be 100% responsible for something while somebody else hold a share of the responsibility.
A bit like you can have 100% of a software, give it to someone else and still have 100% of the software.

The guys that killed over this Koran matter are 100% responsible for their action while the people that triggered that violence for nothing are responsible for triggering it. There are things that would justify it, but wanting to make a bigoted and deceiving "Trial" to a book doesn't apply.

[Leafsnail]

Like I said, we don't take shit seriously in America, so we're surprised and appalled when others do. We also prize freedom of speech -- even offensive speech -- above almost all else, so we're inclined to see Pastor Jones' action as the lesser evil. Whereas in most of the Islamic world, piety is prized over individual freedoms, so Pastor Jones' action would be seen as the greater evil.

Isn't there a bit of an elephant in the room here?  As in... perhaps something which you were not allowed to burn in America until the Supreme Court struck dowin the law in 1989, and which was nearly passed back into law via constitutional amendment in 2006 (failing by just one vote)?

[Earthquake Damage]

Harm has been done.  If our goal is punishment (for the sake of vengeance or "justice"), who do we punish?  ed boy nicely addresses the trouble with determining who's to blame.  If our goal is to prevent such harm in the future, we need to identify and address as many contributing factors as we can.  ed boy's list of potential culprits is helpful here.

As for the original topic, we have little (direct) control over radicalism, fundamentalism (a subset of radicalism, more or less), and bigotry overseas, but surely we can find ways to reduce them in the US.

[Funk]

well thats a smart move dumd ass.
its a good thing he is baned from the uk.

[Earthquake Damage]

its a good thing he is baned from the uk.

If you're talking about Terry Jones, that sounds pointless to me.  He doesn't strike me as someone who would ever want to go to the UK anyway.

[Criptfeind]

well thats a smart move dumd ass.

I am sorry. I can not take a sentence like this as anything other then a joke. Who are you talking about?

Edit: Ultimately, I don't think the ass hole deserves to be banned from anywhere.

[Leafsnail]

Edit: Ultimately, I don't think the ass hole deserves to be banned from anywhere.

But of course you'd respect the viewpoint of a country that thinks he does?

[Criptfeind]

Please define respect, cause, no offense to you, that is a trap of a question.

Also the questions of if he deserved it and if it was a good idea are, in my mind, not the same question.

[Phmcw]

Edit: Ultimately, I don't think the ass hole deserves to be banned from anywhere.

But of course you'd respect the viewpoint of a country that thinks he does?

But then how would you poop?

...

...

...

I'm sorry, I'm sorry,      

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Wow wait a sescond.  So much cause and effect blame going on here.  The TRUE VICTEMS here, the UN people, were 100% innocent of any wrong doing in this case.  They had nothing to do with any of it.  They were MURDERED by a group of people who wanted to kill someone.  The MURDERED other human beings in PROTEST of something they thought was wrong.  The MURDERED completely innocent, unrelated other HUMAN BEINGS, to protest a man burning a holy book ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET.  Any who think of trying to point out justification or blame is way of the freaking mark.  If it is somehow justified, then every muslim should have killed every westerner, right?  Its the only logical end result of the many varied points being made here.  EVERY single human being on this earth bears the consequences of their own personal actions, not the actions of others who had minds of their own and made their own decisions.  HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Muslims did not go out and kill any westerner they could find after the Koran/Kuran/Qu'ran burning.  Only the MUDEROUS crowd in AFGANISTAN did because they were MURDERERS in the first place.  Its perfectly fine to SHUN Paster Jones if you disagree with his point of view, but BLAME the true violent MURDERERS.  It is the MUDERERS who should be apologizing, not anyone else.  By the words of too many people here, it would seem justified to kill every Muslim found in the US everytime they burn the US flag, or our President in effigy, or chant "death to America".  WTF is wrong here!
NM, whats the point.

you know what, this whole discussion disgusts me. I have lost most of any respect I had for a lot of people.  And, strangely, others surprised me by earning it.  Now I am sure you dont care, but, there it is anyway.

[Criptfeind]

Well... Honestly yeah... I don't really care. But that is totally not what this is about. No one here is saying that it was in any way justified, the only debate is how much blame should land on the crazy preachers shoulders.

[Leafsnail]

Please define respect, cause, no offense to you, that is a trap of a question.

In the same way you might respect people's right to freedom of expression even if you find their views abhorrant.

Also the questions of if he deserved it and if it was a good idea are, in my mind, not the same question.

Sure.  But you clearly specified one of them, so I don't see the problem.

[Jackrabbit]

well thats a smart move dumd ass.
its a good thing he is baned from the uk.

He's such a horsnes ass