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[IronStorm]

There seems to be a fair amount of overlap when reporting bugs- I think maybe it would be nice if we had a stickied post where we could post a more standard way of reporting bugs and where those that were fixed could be deleted? I'm sure it would help Toady out- the buglist on the dev side seems to be massive, as it also contains suggestions.

i.e. something like:

Poster name:
DF version: [22.107.21a]
Original Link to Forum:
Priority: [CRITICAL] [NON-CRITICAL] [ANNOYING] [TRIVIAL]
Description:
Reproducible: [YES] [NO] [HOW]
Links to similiar bugs:
Fixed: [NO] [IF YES -> [DF VERSION] ]

So instead of a confusing mishmash we could have something like (using examples from the last page)

POSTER: Mechanoid
DF VERSION: 22.107.21a
ORIGINAL LINK: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000469
PRIORITY: [TRIVIAL]
DESCRIPTION:  

quote:Job screen fails to terse past the [title], and ends up placing the job name PAST the status of the job. "Encrust finished goods with rose quartz" and equally long job names cause this issue.

REPRODUCIBLE: [YES] : Graphical bug on the job menu
LINKS TO SIMILIAR: [N/A]
FIXED: [NO]

Poster name: Rylen
DF version: 22.107.21a
Original Link to Forum: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000455
Priority: [NON-CRITICAL]
Description:  

quote:Last year my dwarves kept planting seeds until winter came around and destroyed the plots. This year, I didn't want to waste any effort on uncessary work so, mid-autum, I converted the fields to fallow (z), deselecting any crop. This didn't stop them, though. They kept generating and filling plant seed commands. I tried going into the unit screen and removing workers from the farming jobs. They kept signing back up.

I didn't turn off Growing in all the dwarves. It would probaly work but is too inefficient and I might not manage to get all of them to turn them back on.

Rylen

Reproducible: [YES]
Links to similiar bugs:
Fixed: [NO]

Poster name: silsor
DF version: [22.107.21a]
Original Link to Forum: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000461
Priority: [TRIVIAL]
Description:  

quote: I accidentally flooded one of my earlier fortresses yesterday and all my dwarves but one died. The last peasant stood on the door of his bedroom where he had woken up, spamming drink cancellations from underwater, as he had foolishly filled his own doorway and bedroom with water. He never died and I just abandoned the fortress.

Reproducible: [?]
Links to similiar bugs:
Fixed: [NO]

I know there's a few bugs that's been brought  up that I consider 'critical' that I don't see here that might have been lost in the mishmash and that might be nice to put front and center- i.e. Dwarves dying in jail, Sherrif/Captain/Hammerer killing dwarves, Aquaduct channels, etc..

[w]

How about some actual bug tracking utility, e.g. Bugzilla?

[IronStorm]

Well, I was also thinking of an accessible list where the people who post bugs could go to see if its been addressed / known and maybe could add more information to it.

The one in the wiki could work, but I don't know how many people who check the bug report boards here go there also.

[Draxxalon]

I've been thinking about suggesting the bug tracking tool myself (I spend a large amount of my RL work day in one, and I wouldn't ever want to be without one).

It could also track the req/core/bloat issues too, if it is set up properly.

Really, though, it's up to Toady.

[ October 17, 2006: Message edited by: Draxxalon ]

[X]

Bug tracking software is for keeping teams of developers nsync. There's only one Toad so he doesn't want that, just better dissemination.

X

[w]

Yes, bug tracking software is for keeping teams of developers in sync, but that's not all it's for.

For example, as relates to DF specifically, it provides a standardized, well-thought, searchable, and easy-to-use method for users to report problems, see whether problems already have been reported, see whether there's any resolution, et cetera.

The forum currently fulfills those roles, but it's not as good at them as something actually designed to do so would be.

[Toady One]

The current categorized list (my bugs txt file) is working for me and I don't like the idea of having my main bug database as a wiki or some complicated system I have to fuss with to get an overview of what's the matter with the game.  I can clean the txt up and have the magic B12 IT person help me magically make them viewable in some nice place that could be text-searched and linked to relevant forum threads.  This forum doesn't have stickies, but I can put a link to the main list in the header.  It might take a while for the html itself to materialize though.

[Draxxalon]

quote:Originally posted by X:
<STRONG>Bug tracking software is for keeping teams of developers nsync. There's only one Toad so he doesn't want that, just better dissemination.

X</STRONG>

Bug tracking software is also used for producing reports, sorting data, prioritizing, and information dissemination.

Regardless of team size.

And keep in mind, that in essence, everyone playing the game is now part of the DF development process - we're the testing department.   So it isn't exactly accurate to say Toady has a team of one.   But it is up to Toady to decide how he wants to manage the team.

The effectiveness of a bug tracker is largely dependant on how it is set up, and how it is used.   I've used a relatively simple bug tracker to keep a good grasp on 5,000+ active bugs in a team of over 100 people, because it was set up well and used according to how it was designed, and conversely, had problems managing 50 bugs (with a team of 50ish people) in one that was set up poorly, and not used according to how it was designed.

A properly set up, and properly used bug tracker could give:
-Which Core/Req/Bloat elements are completed, in progress, and what they are dependant on, as well as the priority of doing them.
-Which bugs are known, what build they were found in, priority of them being fixed, and if appropriate, which core/req/bloat they are related to.

[ October 18, 2006: Message edited by: Draxxalon ]

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Draxxalon:
<STRONG>And keep in mind, that in essence, everyone playing the game is now part of the DF development process - we're the testing department.   So it isn't exactly accurate to say Toady has a team of one.   But it is up to Toady to decide how he wants to manage the team.</STRONG>

In that case, I haven't been paid yet!

I demand modest quarters, a weapon rack, and an item made out of green glass.

[axus]

quote:Originally posted by Aquillion:
<STRONG>In that case, I haven't been paid yet!

I demand modest quarters, a weapon rack, and an item made out of green glass.</STRONG>

I'll throw a tantrum if I don't get decent quarters.

[Draco18s]

I demand a diamond bed with silk sheets! >.>
Assuming such a thing can be made.  I've seen a marble bed (artifact), so I assume it's not out of the question.

[Maximus]

I can see how the current system works fine for Toady -- it's us playtesters that would like to see a more organized system, so that we know which bugs have been reported.  But organizing the list is makework for Toady.

I think it's a project for someone to do on the wiki.  There's already a "known bugs and issues" article there, but it only contains a dozen bugs.

[ October 20, 2006: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[Toady One]

As soon as the python thing gets put together I'll have your organized list, and post it somewhere, and keep it updated.  It's just the interactivity and changing of my basic system I don't like.  I need to have my own little inbred file.