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Author Topic: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.  (Read 8828 times)

ral

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Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 07:00:27 am »

Ok, stuff about temperature added. If anyone does any !!science!! to better quantify this stuff please post.

If you fiddle with worldgen parameters to get huge elevation differences, there seems to normally be a cap of about 100 z-levels between the highest and lowest section of ground on any given embark site (in my experience), resulting in a plateau if your mountain would otherwise be even higher. Peaks seem to ignore this cap; the game seems to want to force the mountain to be pointy.

Ok, so.... Given that the maximum Z-height (according to what was already on the wiki before I started) for a whole region is determined by the highest point in the region and not the embark zone, simply embarking in a small zone in a region with a mountain peak should result in a lot more z-levels above ground?

Can anyone verify? Is there any reason to embark near a peak rather than just up the LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND?

Untelligent

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Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 11:24:29 am »

Well, pointy mountains are cool even if they're not freakishly tall.
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 11:52:52 am »

    Quote
    • Percentage of beasts dead for stoppage - i'm assuming that this means history generation will stop early if this % of beasts die for any reason. please verify
    I was under the assumption that this stops them from dying after a certain percentage?

    It definitely stop worldgen early if it hits this %

    Quote
    • Min/Max Elevation - If I understand properly this does not actually impact the depth of the terrain, only the range of elevation levels available at the regional level. Please confirm/elaborate
    You've got me, I've never messed with this and gotten a world to generate. Kept complaining that the world was too flat for mountains.

    No variation give a (pretty much) flat world. The rejections can be turned off in other settings. A high minimum means no oceans, a low maximum means no mountains. I found rivers need a min. elevation of 300 for the start. Setting a world with elevation 299 everywhere affected river generation. Setting 300 everywhere was ok for rivers.

    Quote
    • Drainage - What does drainage do other than being required by certain biomes?
    [if you make a lot of drainage, you can get a pretty nice lake. I got a big lake that looked almost like an ocean once, but the info assured me it was a lake.[/b]

    Also seems to affect number/depth of soil layers i think.

    EDIT : lower seems to give more soil, but I suspect other factors affect it too.

    Quote
    • Max number of subregions - What's a subregion and whats the practical impact of changing this?
    Not sure what the impact would be, but see above for an attempt at describing them. Turning off subregions might actually be a good thing if you hate 200 Z level maps.

    I always thought this is the number of separate biomes, eg the flashing regions you see on embark when you hit F1 and F2 when there's more than one biome on the embark location. Higher should make the regions smaller, thus more varied embarks.

    Quote
    • Allow Init Embark Options to Show Tunnels - What is this?
    Never seen one myself, but I'm assuming it allows you to see where tunnels are. If there still is tunnels.
    [/list]

    Shows cave location in local area embark selection, same symbol as a stone in-game, create a world with many caves and almost every 16/x16 embark region can have one.

    EDIT : I was wrong on the last one, tunnels not caves, as I see now. I never played 40d

    « Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 03:12:53 pm by Reelyanoob »
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    Greiger

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 01:20:02 pm »

    A complete edge ocean is an ocean that takes up an entire edge of a map.  If you want your world to be an island you set this to 4 and all of the edges of the world will be ocean tiles.

    a setting of 0 generates worlds like they were before.  There may be the occasional ocean that takes up part of a map edge (that is the partial kind) but they will never take up the entire edge of a map.

    a setting of 1 generates a world that seems like a coastline. One edge of the map will be completely underwater and there will be a large ocean taking up much of the map on that side.  Think the east or west coast of the united states, the north coast of canada, or southern europe.  If your edge ocean happens to pick your world's frozen side most of it will be glacier.

    A setting of 2 generates another coastline along with the first one.  The map could end up looking something like panama if the oceans pick opposite sides of the map.

    A setting of 3 makes a penninsula, like florida.  There will be oceans on 3 sides of the map, and land on only one side of the map.

    A setting of 4 makes an island, like austrailia or iceland.  The entire map will be surrounded by water.

    P.S. These large edge oceans will take up part of the other edges too.  For example a full edge ocean on the east side will have part of the north and south sides underwater, but that does not add to the partial edge oceans count.
    « Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 01:26:26 pm by Greiger »
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    ral

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 03:30:00 pm »

    Ok, awesome. Thanks for the info everyone.

    I seem to not be too busy today so I've updated the wiki with this additional info and corrected a few things.

    Keep things coming and don't hesitate to update the wiki yourself if you want, though I don't mind doing it if you just want to post here.

    In particular, I've noticed that some of these parameters behave differently if you've done any modding, but I haven't done any modding myself so I don't know what all of these are. If you happen to see anything that's incomplete due to lack of modding info, please update or let me know.

    I'm going to go back and edit the original post to delete questions that I'm pretty sure have been answered conclusively at this point.

    wuphonsreach

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 03:43:06 pm »

    Nice work.

    What are the values used in the quick start screen when you pick low / medium / high savagery?

    [SAVAGERY:0:100:101:101]
    [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]

    Listing default values would be good too.
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    Nameless Archon

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #21 on: April 01, 2011, 03:45:30 pm »

    Rainfall - What are the effects of rainfall besides filling murky pools, unhappy thoughts, and being required by certain biomes?[/li][/list]
    Rainfall also cleans up some things like vomit/blood/goo, if I recall right. This may not be the exact sort of information you were after though - what are you really wanting to know?
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    ral

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #22 on: April 01, 2011, 05:41:31 pm »

    Thanks!

    I just wrote a long reply, but it was eaten due to some sort of http server error.

    How would I figure out what the various options in the "Generate New World!" screen mean in specific parameter terms? I didn't get what you meant with the savagery tokens.

    re rainfall
    Right now I'm mostly interested in how rainfall impacts soil, aquifers, and tree growth as well as anything else that affects those.

    Cool, I just found the string dump on the wiki. This ought to help with some stuff, but I can't find any basic world gen defaults. Are they in the raws somewhere?

    RiderofDark

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #23 on: April 01, 2011, 06:33:51 pm »

    Cool, I just found the string dump on the wiki. This ought to help with some stuff, but I can't find any basic world gen defaults. Are they in the raws somewhere?
    /data/init/world_gen.txt
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    ral

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #24 on: April 01, 2011, 06:37:42 pm »

    That has the defaults for advanced world generation, not the ones for the "Create World Now!" thing.

    Misterstone

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #25 on: April 01, 2011, 07:33:26 pm »

    I found that if I keep evil/good squares moderately low in large regions, and increase them for small ones, predictably I get small pockets of evilness or goodness.  I think that regions are based on biomes formed once all of the geological stuff (rivers, erosion, rain shadows, etc.) has happened.  If you want to know how big a small region is, simply turn good/evil off on other sizes and max it out for small regions, that should give you a good idea.  It seems like a named region is never split between an aligned region and a normal one, it's either all good/evil or all normal.  I wonder if that's a bug?  Or maybe the number total refers to the entire number of squares on the world map.
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    RiderofDark

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #26 on: April 01, 2011, 08:22:07 pm »

    Or maybe the number total refers to the entire number of squares on the world map.
    Minimum/desired squares count towards that, yes. If you take a look at a large map (257x257), the highest that you can require is 66048. 257 squared is 66049. So requiring, say, 40000 forest and 30000 grassland will have endless rejects.
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    ral

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #27 on: April 02, 2011, 01:22:50 pm »

    I messed with the good/evil square counts and it looks like rejections won't occur if the required number of squares can't be placed, so the numbers aren't minimums, they just "try to place this many but never mind if you cant".

    Messing with small/medium/large it's still not clear to me exactly what defines these sizes but I guess it doesn't matter too much.

    I think I'll include a table showing the squares of the standard map sizes to advise people on how to avoid exceeding the number of squares on the map with the minimum biome requirements.

    wuphonsreach

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #28 on: April 02, 2011, 05:46:06 pm »

    Pretty sure that when you auto-generate a world using the quick start menu it writes out a text file like "region2-world_gen_param.txt" that contains the same settings that you'd use to generate a custom world.  I'll have to do some !!SCIENCE!! next week and do some comparisons.
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    RiderofDark

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    Re: Creating ☼Advanced World Generation☼ docs, have questions.
    « Reply #29 on: April 02, 2011, 06:58:27 pm »

    I messed with the good/evil square counts and it looks like rejections won't occur if the required number of squares can't be placed, so the numbers aren't minimums, they just "try to place this many but never mind if you cant".
    Well, I suppose that good/evil square count is treated differently than the others (grassland, ocean, etc.) given that it says Desired Good/Evil count instead of the Minimum square count for actual land.

    Edit: Didn't mean to come off as sounding rude or anything, just an observation.
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