Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Supercharazad]

Ah, I get it.

In which case, it sounds like fun, time to write something.

[Psyco Jelly]

I started work on this world as an original setting for Pathfinder. It focuses mainly on the west part of the continent of Prog Nasik and surrounding Islands. Prog Nasik is primarily desert, with meadowed lowlands to the east, rugged mountainous terrain to the west, and forest to the north. The culture I'm developing the language for is now extinct, though it had spanned nearly the entire continent at one point. Each of the modern nation's languages are influenced in one way or another with Mahr, the language of the ancients, and "Mahr" translates as "Knowing" within itself.

As for the Slavic influence, there are large number of Fae in the world, usually taking the form of birds in one way or another. In addition, there exist "Revenant", which are based partially on Rusalka myths, which in this world are not limited to women, nor to lakes, instead changing appearance based on how they died. In one culture in particular, revenant easily gain political power. Another kind of being are Moroii, which feed on the emotions of others, eventually driving them to suicide. Moroii can still be killed like any other human, but have a very dulled sense of pain, or anything else for that matter. Vila are female spirits of storms, dwelling on mountaintops and may take the form of birds. There are three mother Vila, Gamiun, Sirin, and Alkanast, which are not only fae but guides to the afterlife as well.

Not to mention Drekavacs, which are beastly wolf-men with howls that oftentimes rally other malevolent spirits.

The world itself is in turmoil, with worshipers of the Tyrants (beings based on the Greek titans) gaining a great following, and fighting against worshipers of the Liberator and other Martyrs (humans had had died for one cause or another, based on early Christian attempts to convert pagans). The worshipers of the Liberator are fighting a losing battle... The Tyrants' influence are much more powerful and direct than all of the Martyrs combined.

[Lysabild]

I started work on this world as an original setting for Pathfinder. It focuses mainly on the west part of the continent of Prog Nasik and surrounding Islands. Prog Nasik is primarily desert, with meadowed lowlands to the east, rugged mountainous terrain to the west, and forest to the north. The culture I'm developing the language for is now extinct, though it had spanned nearly the entire continent at one point. Each of the modern nation's languages are influenced in one way or another with Mahr, the language of the ancients, and "Mahr" translates as "Knowing" within itself.

As for the Slavic influence, there are large number of Fae in the world, usually taking the form of birds in one way or another. In addition, there exist "Revenant", which are based partially on Rusalka myths, which in this world are not limited to women, nor to lakes, instead changing appearance based on how they died. In one culture in particular, revenant easily gain political power. Another kind of being are Moroii, which feed on the emotions of others, eventually driving them to suicide. Moroii can still be killed like any other human, but have a very dulled sense of pain, or anything else for that matter. Vila are female spirits of storms, dwelling on mountaintops and may take the form of birds. There are three mother Vila, Gamiun, Sirin, and Alkanast, which are not only fae but guides to the afterlife as well.

Not to mention Drekavacs, which are beastly wolf-men with howls that oftentimes rally other malevolent spirits.

The world itself is in turmoil, with worshipers of the Tyrants (beings based on the Greek titans) gaining a great following, and fighting against worshipers of the Liberator and other Martyrs (humans had had died for one cause or another, based on early Christian attempts to convert pagans). The worshipers of the Liberator are fighting a losing battle... The Tyrants' influence are much more powerful and direct than all of the Martyrs combined.

Wow that's a lot of physical mythology I usually work much more on realistic worlds with the fantasy being other races (which I even make evolutionary history for) and animals. I especially want to make a world with no plants or creatures(races included.) in common with real life. The revenants sound like a cool story, what are the Rusalka?

Pathfinder is that the amazingly unrealistic viking movie where big bad extreme vikings with horned helms ravage the poor indians? xD Never saw the movie but it looked like a nice comedy to me being danish and really interested in my scandinavian history :b

[Willfor]

Actually, I think it's for the Pathfinder RPG, a project looking to continue D&D 3.5 now that 4E is out.

[Lysabild]

Actually, I think it's for the Pathfinder RPG, a project looking to continue D&D 3.5 now that 4E is out.

Ahh that makes sense, and his world sounds well suited for D&D actually.

[Supermikhail]

Decided to contribute to the procrastination storm.

Why can't you use some obscure real language for your world/writing, instead of inventing your own?

Spoiler: Longer explanation. Might anger/upset you. If it does, don't say you haven't been warned (click to show/hide)

$0.02

My thoughts are that maybe because you, like any modern person, want to own stuff - cars, software, lovers - and it actually irks you if the possession is not complete. So you need to invent your own language as you like it.

My second idea is that you try to imitate some person who has created a language, like some sci-fi writer - of whom I unfortunately can't provide an example - or fantasy writer, like Tolkien. Yep, that's a cool world he built, and for that was a cool person. Except, he didn't do it idly (at least I don't think so). First, languages and their formation was a part of his job (he worked in philological research, taught English language and literature), so it probably contributed to his better understanding of his subjects, and passion for profession never harms... I think everybody here knows that Tolkien's world was for him only the background for his languages... My point is, his worldbuilding went hand in hand with his service to the mankind.

I don't want to imply that everybody here is a fulltime slacker, and it's more than likely that you are quite successful in some other, more useful field, but still, why do you have to create your own language, instead of adopting and properly researching some real, but obscure, one? With a real language...

First, it might actually save you some effort.

Second, don't fool yourself - you're never going to make your own language more authentic and complete than any even completely dead real language. Languages with the lowest number of speakers had millions of people "work" on them, historically. Also, naturally and confidently.

Third, and it's a bit sad, I think, - there are enough languages and cultures in the real world which have only hundreds or even dozens of speakers and bearers, and they go extinct at a rate a bit lower than the rate of extinction of biological species (hyperbolic comparison). Well, you might not care, but I think I might have a few points of interest on that matter. I dare to predict that as our human society becomes more uniform, the need to be ethnically tolerant disappears. And if smaller cultures don't suffer for it, then, in case we actually meet an extraterrestrial intelligence, peaceful contact might become harder. My other point is, that if the whole world becomes English-Spanish speaking, there won't be much to base your speculation on, because the majority won't know that any other languages just might exist.

Also you may want to consider that there's actually a lot of fascinating places on non-imaginary Earth, which won't have any qualms with speaking a non-imaginary language, - or places which will soon stop being fascinating. Instead of wracking your brain with a geology not wanting to be authentic, you could study one that already is.

Yeah, of course there are drawbacks. In actual real world there are no furries which aren't a) fat and crazy, or b) atavistic and not sexy at all. A real-world location has absolutely no geek value, so you'll lose a lot of respect in the eyes of your geek friends or even have to find yourself new, non-geek friends. Oh, yes - you won't own the language, and probably won't be able to get the property rights for the land.

$0.02

[Psyco Jelly]

Thankee, and the only species of sentient humanoids (there are a lot of races) are humans. Probably the only non-human race I'd let my players be would be Revenant. If a player wanted to be an "elf" then they would likely hail from Viirm to the north, where slender and tall forest-dwelling fae worshipers dwell. Similarly, if they wanted to be a "dwarf" they would likely hail from Mahtia, a country to the west of Viirm in the frozen tundras where the populace is in general very hardy and pale-skinned. There are no Orc, Halfling, or Gnome analogues.

As for what Revenant actually are, when you die, there is a small chance you will re-enter the world as a Revenant. Revenant are usually dead-set on one goal very personal to them, and tend to "die" after that task is completed. However, others are more random, and are nearly immortal (unless you kill them of course). A Revenant that had been hung might appear with a scar around his or her neck, one that died in a fire might bear burn marks, even if the body was destroyed. One that drowned might have constantly slick and wet hair, or one that starved might appear emaciated.

So far my players have enjoyed it, with one even becoming the leader of a cult to Kinjit, one of the Tyrants. There really haven't been much mention of fae so far, since my players are more interested in the politics of the city the campaign is based in rather than the wilderness.

[Lysabild]

So far my players have enjoyed it, with one even becoming the leader of a cult to Kinjit, one of the Tyrants. There really haven't been much mention of fae so far, since my players are more interested in the politics of the city the campaign is based in rather than the wilderness.

Success as a GM is nice and all that really matters in P&P is that your players love what is going on.

Spoiler: Logical explanation to the pennies (click to show/hide)

$0.02

My thoughts are that maybe because you, like any modern person, want to own stuff - cars, software, lovers - and it actually irks you if the possession is not complete. So you need to invent your own language as you like it.

Creating a language is like creating a piece of music, painting artwork, writing poetry. I enjoy making it and using it for myself, not for others, though I enjoy sharing it, getting feedback and working with other people, just as a musician or drawing artist might.

My second idea is that you try to imitate some person who has created a language, like some sci-fi writer - of whom I unfortunately can't provide an example - or fantasy writer, like Tolkien. Yep, that's a cool world he built, and for that was a cool person. Except, he didn't do it idly (at least I don't think so). First, languages and their formation was a part of his job (he worked in philological research, taught English language and literature), so it probably contributed to his better understanding of his subjects, and passion for profession never harms... I think everybody here knows that Tolkien's world was for him only the background for his languages... My point is, his worldbuilding went hand in hand with his service to the mankind.

I don't want to imply that everybody here is a fulltime slacker, and it's more than likely that you are quite successful in some other, more useful field, but still, why do you have to create your own language, instead of adopting and properly researching some real, but obscure, one? With a real language...

First, it might actually save you some effort.

Are musicians slackers too? Are musician not also inspired by persons who've gone before them? Besides, why should making worlds be okey dokey but making languages to make them feel more alive not be? Using Mordvin, Ainu, Elfdalian or Basque might save work but it won't feel authentic at all, and it's not really your right to take another peoples language which might be sacred to them for a fantasy novel.

Second, don't fool yourself - you're never going to make your own language more authentic and complete than any even completely dead real language. Languages with the lowest number of speakers had millions of people "work" on them, historically. Also, naturally and confidently.

Who's fooling themselves?

Third, and it's a bit sad, I think, - there are enough languages and cultures in the real world which have only hundreds or even dozens of speakers and bearers, and they go extinct at a rate a bit lower than the rate of extinction of biological species (hyperbolic comparison). Well, you might not care, but I think I might have a few points of interest on that matter. I dare to predict that as our human society becomes more uniform, the need to be ethnically tolerant disappears. And if smaller cultures don't suffer for it, then, in case we actually meet an extraterrestrial intelligence, peaceful contact might become harder. My other point is, that if the whole world becomes English-Spanish speaking, there won't be much to base your speculation on, because the majority won't know that any other languages just might exist.

And me writing a book in Elfdalian will make the world remember the language eternal in the face of english dominance? Some of the language made are interlangs, like Expresso attempts at making a united language with bits of every language to unite the world in it's speaking, so that we wouldn't use so much resource on translation. Is that a bad thing? I haven't stopped speaking danish even though I can live the rest of my life in my own land speaking english.

Also, with this suggestion I guess we should also stop making new songs and just do covers from now so that these songs will never be lost? Or people can only paint replicas or poets should just stop their silly thoughts and do meaningful work like, what?

Also you may want to consider that there's actually a lot of fascinating places on non-imaginary Earth, which won't have any qualms with speaking a non-imaginary language, - or places which will soon stop being fascinating. Instead of wracking your brain with a geology not wanting to be authentic, you could study one that already is.

Yeah, of course there are drawbacks. In actual real world there are no furries which aren't a) fat and crazy, or b) atavistic and not sexy at all. A real-world location has absolutely no geek value, so you'll lose a lot of respect in the eyes of your geek friends or even have to find yourself new, non-geek friends. Oh, yes - you won't own the language, and probably won't be able to get the property rights for the land.

$0.02

So okay, all in all you want me to move to Far away, with special language and live there and speak that, when what my hobby is, is creating a language I find beautiful or entertaining and a world to write fiction in that entertains me and perhaps other people?


Do you have something against all fantasy authors on the base of not being "contstructive"? In that case you might find that Toady is not making a game that really fits you.

[Supermikhail]

Hey, I wrote a reply yesterday, but didn't have the means to post it, so I had time to think it over.

Spoiler: Only choice pieces, still not peaceful (click to show/hide)

"Hey, I'm not making you do anything. Actually, I just barely refrained from announcing myself a hypocrite in that first post, because I'm currently not doing anything useful at all, and pretty much stuck in life, and don't see any prospects, and all that stuff. Just, you know, stuff came into my head and I had to do it. And about Toady - yeah, I think he's a poor bastard whom life didn't treat fairly and he had to suppress his desires and ended up with this obsession. For my reason for being here - well, I pretty much have no other place to go. My real life social circle has finally looped back onto my family exclusively, and I guess I've become so antisocial that I resent any other forum to sink into.

So, yeah, you've got full right to ignore my posts or report them, because in some sense what I'm doing here might be considered trolling. That's what all those bucks were about."

<...>Ranting<...>

"What completely baffles me is that people sharing a common interest find each other in the endless expanse of the Internet, and do nothing about it except for small talk. Their common interest being a pretty much insurmountable task to do alone. An extreme case of ownership turning into obsession, to me.

Humans are social creatures. There are few fields of human activity where individual work is reasonable. And I, from my low pedestal, suggest that art and music generally don't belong there. The majority of them is for entertainment. Entertainment will forever be subjective. Which means that to entertain the most (any) people you have to get opinions of a work's entertaining value from more than one person.

That's about efficient expenditure of effort."

<...>

"Also, what's so bad about replicas and covers? Until the middle of the XX century most music thrived on covers and performances of others' pieces. Simply someone was an amazing composer, someone else was an amazing performer. Is it so great to be a part of a million of half-skilled world-famous authors, creators, makers? Mmm, like Toady, for example."

<...>

"And I do believe that other people would be entertained by real languages as much as by made up ones, if not more, because with real languages they would have more resources to learn them from if they wished, and with real locations they could even travel there for added entertainment value."

<...>

"do you think it's entertaining to read gibberish which the author proudly calls a language? Like, seriously. Or is simple gibberish less entertaining to the reader than gibberish proudly called a language? Or is the author going to feel fulfilled if a few enlightened readers set out on a lifelong journey to decipher and learn his made up language, and in the end will appreciate the care with which he arranged diacritics and apostrophes into meaningful patterns, thus achieving nothing with their time which couldn't be done in far less time solving crossword puzzles, that is, quenching their brains' information hunger?"

<...>

"Nevermind, who am I kidding? Nobody on these forums is going to make any significant impact on human culture, at least for the fact that we spend out time on these forums instead of, well, doing something constructive."

I propose that there are several kinds of conworlds - organic and authentic, and so different from ours only in details of appearance, and completely uninteresting; extremely entertaining through collecting in them a bunch of racial, enthnic, professional stereotypes; and entertaining through imitating some human society. I don't see any merits in the delusion of orinality with which they are conceived. Do you?

[RedKing]

As far as conlangs are concerned, most of the conlangers I've known were either linguists or intensely interested in language. The conlang becomes a way to become intimately familiar with the structure and conventions of language, as well as a thought experiment to try out novel approaches or obscure traits of language. In the same way that a number of the classic sci-fi authors had academic training in physics or other hard sciences. They wrote as a way to explore hypothetical constructs from those hard sciences.

You may as well ask why any fiction writer writes? They get an idea, a character, a scene in their head, and it demands to be fleshed out.

[Supermikhail]

But should they claim this idea as their own? Far too few fiction writers participate in collaboration, even if the story's purpose is pure entertainment.

Is anybody in this thread a linguist / on their way to becoming a linguist? Did anybody in this thread have good linguistic knowledge before being inspired to make their own language? If not, isn't this interest fleeting?

I really think one should start language-making from a solid base of fascination with linguistics in general. And serious studying of linguistics involves learning languages - in an academic case, not necessarily in comfortable proximity to your sofa and laptop.

Also I forgot last time - usually you don't have to go far to find an obscure language. I myself haven't researched linguistics to any great extent, but I believe the thing with obscure languages is that they have few speakers, but there is a lot of them, and they are pretty much everywhere, excluding some large cities and areas where single language was historically enforced by the government - and even those places can boast colorful dialects.

Anyway, I suddenly feel that I've vented all my steam. I guess, sorry for the derail. Although, whatever - my efforts at constructivising on the Internet have never come to anything.

[Supermikhail]

Hey, guys. There's a thread that could use contribution from conworlders - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81069.0. If you aren't afraid of a lot of words... and can actually put effort into something which isn't your fantasies.

[Lysabild]

Hey, guys. There's a thread that could use contribution from conworlders - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81069.0. If you aren't afraid of a lot of words... and can actually put effort into something which isn't your fantasies.

Excuse me but what is your problem? What's with this sour attitude and crusade against this hobby? It's bording between complete ignorancy and bigotry and is quite mildly said tiring.

[Supermikhail]

Okay, last time was over the top, sorry. But this is the thread that's got me back onto the forum, it's no wonder I feel some (highly) emotional attachment...

[FearfulJesuit]

You kids should check out www.zompist.com/virtuver.htm.