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[AoshimaMichio]

At this point the ideas are flowing into my head faster than making them into games is a good idea.

A common problem, I'm certain.

[FallacyofUrist]

Perhaps.

I don't suppose any of you want some ideas PM'd to you?

[Megggas]

I'm thinking about making a relatively short prison break themed RTD.  The game would revolve around a sudden power shutdown in a high-security prison that contains 1 extremely valuable prisoner.  Players could either choose to be a guard focused on keeping the prisoner contained, or a criminal infiltrator tasked with getting the prisoner out. The power shutdown would only last an hour of ingame time, after which all security settings are restored and the prison becomes inescapable.  There would only be 30 turns before the game ends, and each turn would be 2 minutes of ingame time.  I'd probably try to update once a day, so that the RTD ends after about a month.  Any player who doesn't post by the time I update with the next turn would probably just be auto'ed for that turn.

Anyone think this kind of RTD might work?  I'm considering having the guard-players post in the main thread, while the criminal-players would play via PM.  Then after the game ends, I'd edit every "turn" post to include the PMed actions and results.

I finally started this RTD here.  Gonna give this idea a shot.

[Harry Baldman]

Consolamentum!

It is a dreary, chilly Saturday afternoon in our fine town, and your hearts beat in unison as you contemplate the besmirched, half-rotten visage of the infamous k-hole on Jerome Street behind the truck stop, its deathly silence an implied challenge to your holy mission. You hesitate - anyone would - but the truth of He Who Lies Beyond strengthens you, emboldens you, prepares you for the task to come in mind and body. You sally forth into this small wooden fortress of iniquity, and the door flies open as you rush in like a celestial host. Sprawled bodies of at least three men and women in distant states of moral decay litter the ground, the bounty of the Abyssal One chaining their spirits to the sinful earth created by the terrible confluence of all the evils of the world. One of you calls out, and nobody looks, so deep is their depravity.

A button is pressed and the most transcendental of beats begin to pour out of my old boombox, an uplifting, catchy tune. The ears of the lost will prick up, the sound driving away the base and corrupt animal, baring their sleeping, tarnished souls and priming them for the approaching word of the Lord Beyond. And then as the anticipation washes over the room you shall begin, uplifting verses of transcendence, dope rhymes with no earthly equal and a hook nearly encompassing the existential greatness of a life within the Kingdom Beyond, free of all corrupt essence of the Abyss that prevents mortals from achieving a truly Perfect state, all of these you shall deliver to the chained and the imperfect, and upon hearing the good news you bring, their innermost, beautiful essence will know consolation for the first time in their life. And you will see it, as I have seen it in you, my children, and you shall be moved to tears by the purity to which you have guided their tormented souls.

Your old pastor's gotten a lot more interesting after he came back from missionary work in West Africa, you think as he lowers his arms after telling his vision to the rest of you. Especially since you joined his youth group at your parents' insistence. Every week he has told you many things of the creation of the world, the sinfulness of physicality and the consolation of the soul. You didn't even know that the gods in the Old and New Testament were supposed to be different ones! So weird, but also kind of exciting, you know? And when you pray to the Lord Beyond, you feel all kinds of strange. You feel like it's really working in that medicinal kind of way.

And this latest plan's exciting, too. Pastor Thompson's got his boombox out again, and he says you four are going to one of the finest crackhouses in town to offer their souls consolation through the very dopest of rhymes and the most transcendental of beats. He says he has faith in your success, which you think is the first time anyone's had faith in your success, and you feel quite uplifted already - almost like you used to when you sang at church on Sundays, but a little better. This is going to be so great! You've been preparing some of your best material (your youth group had a whole lyrics workshop as well as quite a few listening sessions in preparation for this day to hone your skills in pointing others to the Kingdom Beyond) for tomorrow afternoon.

The pastor says you're about to come into your own as fellow pastors of the Lord Beyond, and this does make you wonder if you haven't, like, skipped a few years of seminary school or something, but he says it's all right - seminary school teaches so much of the word of the Abyssal One that you had best avoid it. This, he says, may just be enough - if you succeed, of course, and he has faith you will - to make you feel the inimitable sensation of approaching the state of Perfection itself.

Spoiler: What's This? (click to show/hide)

It's a game where you take on the roles of four young teenagers with attitude (but not too much attitude) that have been set on the path of righteous adherence to the doctrine of the Great Ancient Lord of the Beyond, and now you're ready to get serious in a way that only good, pure kids such as yourselves can - through the ministry of religious hip hop. Clean, uplifting, sometimes even more than that, hip hop in the name of the Lord Beyond is a very serious calling to devote oneself to. It requires guts, moxie, verve and, of course, faith to properly carry the word of the Lord to the masses and scour the impurities staining their souls.

Spoiler: And How Does That Work? (click to show/hide)

You can broadly categorize people by the state of existence they are in. From most impure to least, they are:

Chained: you are a slave to the Abyssal One's world of sin, and lack the ability to escape on your own, or indeed act in accordance with the Lord Beyond's will - if you do not attain consolation, you may find yourself permanently in such a state. If you happen to be in this state, your impurity may begin to infect your friends or interfere with your objective.
Downpressed: you have tainted yourself further than usual, and your faith is wavering, your ability to follow the way of the Lord Beyond shaken! You may find yourself having difficulty achieving lesser levels of corruption on your own, but it is sometimes possible.
Buoyant: the baseline. All those with their minds open to the way of the Lord Beyond find themselves in this state, where the path ahead is clear, yet potentially arduous, but salvation is within sight.
Rising: this is how you feel when the pastor leads you in prayer, a feeling of change and transformation coming upon you as the consolation for a life sinfully lived starts to purify your soul. Your verve heightens, your moxie expands, your guts tighten and your faith glows!
Whatever level Pastor Thompson occupies: this is higher than you've ever been, you are sure of this. But how many magnitudes higher, and whether there are intermediate stages between this and the highest you've reached you cannot say.

How do you rise, you may ask? Well, there's several ways.

• Prayers to the Lord Beyond can take you up to a level of the highest you've known when you are down, but this depends on your faith.
• Witnessing consolation and sudden freedom from a Chained state can raise it even higher - verve helps with this, as you might imagine.
• Being granted consolation, if you have trusty companions ready to blast you with some dope rhymes - they can take you to a level they themselves occupy, but no higher.
• Receiving signs from the Lord Beyond - a rare thing indeed, and one that can take you to heights as of yet unexplored.

But of course one may fall as well, regrettable as it may seem. Here are some examples of things that might make you fall lower.

• Cursing, especially if you take the Lord's name in vain or invoke His punishments.
• Not loving thy neighbor as thyself or doing unto them as you would not have them do unto you.
• Giving in to the corruptions of the world.
• Blunt physical trauma.

Helping you in this will be your four characteristics of note!

• Guts: your physical ability, good for taking hits and being conscious and able to turn the other cheek afterward!
  
• Moxie: can you make sure the beats sound angelic, the mic doesn't make awful noises and you know how to shoot a BB gun? For the practical consoler only moxie will do!
  
• Verve: how much soul can you show in your delivery - critical for a proper consolation, theoretically dope as your rhymes may be!
  
• Faith: the unshakability of your devotion to the Lord Beyond, it helps avoid being Chained and also gives a nice backing to your prayers!
  Important! At all times when performing your consolations you are expected to provide the verses yourself. Otherwise how are we to know your true devotion?
  

Spoiler: But What If You Had To Tell Me All This During A Short Elevator Ride? (click to show/hide)

A mix between one of my prophet games and the Forgotten Art based on evangelical hip hop where players ought to supply their own rhymes (probably with mechanical incentive). Much iniquity will be found and consoled with dope rhymes.

[Slayer1557]

So, one thing I've been thinking about, was various methods of fighting and how to balance them.  You have Melee(w/ and w/o weapons), Guns, and depending on setting, Magic.  And my concern was making all three reasonable options for the players, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Melee: Unlimited use (Barring a weapon breaking, but that would be unusual).  Short Range.
Guns: Ammo is Limited
Magic: Unlimited use, but probably based on some sort of mana/fatigue system to penalize overuse.  Powerful, but also potentially dangerous with backlash.  Easy to limit the players somehow by saying 'you can only use fire spells' or 'you can only summon bees' or whatever.

But my problem comes in mainly with these limiting factors.  I don't want Ammunition to be unlimited (Due to the setting), but then how do I balance giving players Ammo?  If I give them ammo whenever they get low, then it's no limitation at all.  But if I don't give them enough Ammo, they might feel like they're useless, and that Guns were a wrong choice.  Likewise, there comes the issue of, if I want enemies to use guns, the players will be able to loot any unused ammo.  Unless I want to give enemies like... 2 bullets.  There's always the potential to overload the players with ammo.

And for Melee, I'm not sure what I should do, if at all, about the fact the players have to engage in melee.  Range always has the innate advantage of being able to attack first, and that's pretty huge.  I was thinking something like: "6's and 1's are less detrimental than with non-melee weapons"

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Twinwolf]

Maybe instead of having limited ammo, make guns weaker? From a realism standpoint, it doesn't make much sense, but gameplay wise, you'll not do as much damage as the others, but that damage will be more reliable than magic, and at a range.

[Slayer1557]

True, I could make a higher chance of limb/torso injuries, and lower the chance of fatal hits.

One other possibility I was considering was, if conventional weaponry (Melee and/or Guns), proves to be too weak, I can always introduce fantasy/sci-fi weaponry which can do whatever the fuck I want it to, to balance things.  Flaming sword?  Laser gun?  Sure!

[Megggas]

You could also give guns a higher chance of missing if the target is moving while firing.

[Fniff]

For something easier to track then ammo, you could use the fact that guns are loud. That would be good for a stealth-based RtD. You could shoot that guard and kill them instantly... but then everyone in the neighborhood will know someone just got shot.

Does anyone know if melee weapons are harder to kill people with then guns? That would be handy to know for this...

[Slayer1557]

You could also give guns a higher chance of missing if the target is moving while firing.

A possibility.  I'll consider it.

For something easier to track then ammo, you could use the fact that guns are loud. That would be good for a stealth-based RtD. You could shoot that guard and kill them instantly... but then everyone in the neighborhood will know someone just got shot.

Does anyone know if melee weapons are harder to kill people with then guns? That would be handy to know for this...

Yea, the sound is a good point, and stealth could be moderately important in the idea I have.

As for if melee weapons are harder to kill people than guns?  There's a lot of "Depends..." in there.  But generally I would say advantage goes to guns, at least in real life.  You could have a razor sharp sword that's going to be more effective than a dinky pistol though.  Or crack someone's skull open with a club.

[Tsuchigumo550]

For something easier to track then ammo, you could use the fact that guns are loud. That would be good for a stealth-based RtD. You could shoot that guard and kill them instantly... but then everyone in the neighborhood will know someone just got shot.

Does anyone know if melee weapons are harder to kill people with then guns? That would be handy to know for this...

Depends on the weapon and how it's applied. From quickest/easiest to least effective/loud/etc:
Stabbing weapon vs. unaware target
Slashing weapon vs. unaware target
Stabbing weapon vs. aware target
Blunt weapon vs. unaware target
Slashing weapon vs. aware target
Blunt weapon vs. aware target

[IronyOwl]

Consolamentum!

I don't think I'd join this but I would probably watch it. I imagine coming up with your own rhymes would be difficult but rewarding.

So, one thing I've been thinking about, was various methods of fighting and how to balance them.  You have Melee(w/ and w/o weapons), Guns, and depending on setting, Magic.  And my concern was making all three reasonable options for the players, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'd generally avoid trying to overcomplicate it, and try leaning towards more of a rock-paper-scissors thing. You want each option to have a clear scenario where it's handy or preferred, not just assorted quirks that ought to matter on paper.

Of course, then you need to figure out what things you're countering or countered by. Do you want to do a simple Melee->Gun->Magic->Melee thing, or say Melee->Squishy Magic->Armored Gun->Medium, or Melee->Undead->Gun->Living->Magic->Magical->Melee, or what? The setting and vibe are going to determine a lot about what's feasible or balanced.

You could also go off archetypes. In a setting where one guy's got a sword, one guy's dual-wielding pistols, and one guy is wearing a funny robe, what do you expect each of them to do and be good at? What do you expect each of them to struggle with? Again, probably leaning more towards "these three equally common and important scenarios" and away from "well I guess the robes would get in the way?"

I'd love to be more specific, but I feel like it really does depend on the specifics of the system and setting.

[Kadzar]

So, one thing I've been thinking about, was various methods of fighting and how to balance them.  You have Melee(w/ and w/o weapons), Guns, and depending on setting, Magic.  And my concern was making all three reasonable options for the players, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Melee: Unlimited use (Barring a weapon breaking, but that would be unusual).  Short Range.
Guns: Ammo is Limited
Magic: Unlimited use, but probably based on some sort of mana/fatigue system to penalize overuse.  Powerful, but also potentially dangerous with backlash.  Easy to limit the players somehow by saying 'you can only use fire spells' or 'you can only summon bees' or whatever.

But my problem comes in mainly with these limiting factors.  I don't want Ammunition to be unlimited (Due to the setting), but then how do I balance giving players Ammo?  If I give them ammo whenever they get low, then it's no limitation at all.  But if I don't give them enough Ammo, they might feel like they're useless, and that Guns were a wrong choice.  Likewise, there comes the issue of, if I want enemies to use guns, the players will be able to loot any unused ammo.  Unless I want to give enemies like... 2 bullets.  There's always the potential to overload the players with ammo.

And for Melee, I'm not sure what I should do, if at all, about the fact the players have to engage in melee.  Range always has the innate advantage of being able to attack first, and that's pretty huge.  I was thinking something like: "6's and 1's are less detrimental than with non-melee weapons"

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

If players are free to switch to melee if they run out of ammo, then limited ammo works. On the other hand, if someone who uses guns is limited to only using guns, you should let them have unlimited ammo, because what are they going to do otherwise?

Even if you have a setting that doesn't allow for unlimited ammo, that doesn't mean you can't include unlimited ammo in your system. Consider action movies, which rarely have unlimited ammo as part of their setting, and yet Bottomless Magazines is a very common trope, because people rarely want to watch heroes forage for ammo or give explanations about why they're able to carry hundreds of rounds on their person at all time, they just want to see the action. And, likewise, you really don't need to go into detail about the players acquiring ammo, unless it's a setting like Mad Max where ammo is really rare, in which case enemies should generally have no or very little ammo on them or be tough enough that players can't just farm them for ammo.

And having unlimited ammo isn't such a bad thing for a game, so long as you do it right. In other words, don't have it balanced around being a limited resource. Thought it's generally a bad idea to balance something you intend for players to use regularly around the idea that they won't use it regularly anyway (looking at you, Vancian magic system). If you want to have players run out of ammo, you can have that happen without explicitly tracking ammo by making it run out when they have a critical failure (you could use something like this if you want something other than a binary have/do not have ammo state). Or it could be a case where using certain attacks or abilities cause you to run out (like Spirit of the Century, where you can say that you have one bullet left to make your last shot more accurate/powerful). Then you need to resupply before you can use your gun again, or it could just be a case, possibly for some lesser attacks, that you need to take a turn to reload (you might still be assumed to be reloading at other times, but this would be a poorly-timed reload or some sort of fumble during the reload that it takes up your action for the turn).

[Slayer1557]

Oooh!  All good thoughts.  To be more specific without getting into spoilers.  I was thinking a Fallout-esque setting.  Significantly lower population density, resources are rare, but present.  Which is why I was thinking about how to handle ammo.

Kadzar, I really like the cascading Ammo dice.  That does seem like a pretty cool way to do it.  I will certainly consider using it.

As for fallback plans for Gun-wielding characters, yes there is some overlap in stats, so generally, someone who is good at shooting will be able to use melee weapons to some degree of competence.  Same goes for 'magic'.  I say magic, but I am using it as a catch-all term.

[ATHATH]

Maybe gun people could have unlimited amounts of normal ammo, but have small amounts of special ammo with unique effects?