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Author Topic: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)  (Read 739829 times)

Dermonster

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7800 on: February 26, 2014, 05:51:07 pm »

Bad times ahead. Maybe no internet. Maybe no home.

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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7801 on: February 26, 2014, 06:27:40 pm »

I emulated that without even realizing it.

Yep. Too much 4chan.
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7802 on: February 26, 2014, 06:44:30 pm »

Alright, put your pitchforks up here and take on to your torches, because I have no idea what 4chan is, and honestly from what everyone says about it in hushed whispers, I'm a bit frightened to look it up myself.
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IronyOwl   But Kyuubey can more or less be summed up as "You didn't ask."
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7803 on: February 26, 2014, 06:52:09 pm »

Gee, I hope everything turns out okay, Tsuchigumo. You have my sympathy.

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7804 on: February 26, 2014, 06:57:58 pm »

Alright, put your pitchforks up here and take on to your torches, because I have no idea what 4chan is, and honestly from what everyone says about it in hushed whispers, I'm a bit frightened to look it up myself.

It's not that bad if you know what parts of it to stay away from, and which parts are safe. It's like the big overcrowded city of the internets.
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7805 on: February 26, 2014, 07:15:37 pm »

I've heard of it, and entertain thoughts of probing it maybe for the multiforum robot deathmatch, but... I'm scared of doing so. Intimidated, you might say.
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Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7806 on: February 27, 2014, 12:49:45 am »

I think I've discovered the reason why normal games don't have 540 skills to choose from. No sane player would actually read through four tabs that each contain an average 135 skills just to create a character. I need to do some revisions.

I really liked the idea of a game where an end game character would have, maybe, 10% of the available skills, but I think that's it's way too much to ask of anyone to actually read as it stands.

Perhaps try and trim things down to a core of 100 skills, balanced with a number of character traits...
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7807 on: February 27, 2014, 01:11:59 am »

Well, I like the idea. I like lots of ideas, you may have noticed.  :P

But the skill-tree intrigues me. Most (video) games that do stuff like that wind up... with only a few skills, invest X points in this one in order to unlock this one, but OH! until you invest equal points into the second, the first one is better, so you'd better do some grinding, sucka! Or worse, all of them suck except the SINGLE capstone skill, which is of course an endgame skill. I have yet to see a game do skill trees (where multiple points can be invested in one skill) where actually investing in the skills in the middle is worthwhile, or where there's lots of choice between skills.

I mean, D&D has feats, which are a lot like YOUR tree, but you can only take each once, unless specifically specified; and you only get 1 per 3 levels, more or less (usually slightly more, like 1-3 over 20 levels, or 10 extra in rare or unoptimized cases). Your tree AS IT IS (not trimmed down) looks actually similar to the feat trees, but with slightly more; not including splat books.

Personally, I'd be fine reading a list of an average 500 skills per tab over 6 tabs. If I could invest >1 skill point in each, too, I'd be in heaven. If some required multiple skill perquisites (dual wielding + dodge skills, for example), I'd be in heaven's version of heaven. If there were around 60 capstone skills, and a endgame character might get ~2 of them, or 1 and halfway to 3 more, I'd be in that version of heaven's heaven.

I highly doubt anyone with a shred of sanity shares my view on this.
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SeriousConcentrate

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7808 on: February 27, 2014, 01:14:36 am »

Personally speaking I'd like to see the details of what all you have before you start trimming it down, if only because I'm curious. :P
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7809 on: February 27, 2014, 01:16:26 am »

This was it's state last I saw it. By which I mean, I just went back a couple pages and quoted it.
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7810 on: February 27, 2014, 01:17:37 am »

504 gateway timeout doublepost.
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7811 on: February 27, 2014, 01:18:17 am »

What about splitting the skills through multiple levels? Say you put in about 9 dexterity and 10 strength, that would unlock a choice of multiple skills, like dual wielding and piercing strikes and some other skills, you would pick one of them and invest skill points in the other unused skill if you want to, so the player would slowly unlock all the skills without needing to read up on all 5 pages.
Unless you'd want too, like I would.
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IronyOwl   But Kyuubey can more or less be summed up as "You didn't ask."
15:52   IronyOwl   Whereas Dungbeetle is closer to "Fuck you."

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7812 on: February 27, 2014, 01:20:18 am »

I was hoping he had some new stuff since then and maybe some elaboration on some of the terms, such as 'Butt Stroke'. :P

But yeah, I'd go through the tabs at least once, myself.
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Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7813 on: February 27, 2014, 10:40:32 am »

What about splitting the skills through multiple levels? Say you put in about 9 dexterity and 10 strength, that would unlock a choice of multiple skills, like dual wielding and piercing strikes and some other skills, you would pick one of them and invest skill points in the other unused skill if you want to, so the player would slowly unlock all the skills without needing to read up on all 5 pages.

Well, yeah. But the point of skills was to get away from having to use attributes. I mean, I suppose I could make the skills more enjoyable to read, with flavor text and similar spice... Hmm. 540 skills, One sentence description, Probably averaging 2.5 sentences of flavor text. (at best) That's... somewhere between 28,350 and 37,800 words. Still take at least a month to write.

I was hoping he had some new stuff since then and maybe some elaboration on some of the terms, such as 'Butt Stroke'. :P

Buttstroke: The actual, technical, term for smashing someone in the face with the stock of a rifle. The military is professionally trained in butt strokes, in fact that's what a right handed smash with a pugil stick is designed to simulate. (Assuming you're right handed)

I don't think they like the name any more than you do.

On the subject of new stuff. There was a brief time when I did have 27% of the skills worked with the technical details of what they did (though I wasn't entirely happy with them), then a critical existence failure on the part of a computer knocked that back down to 0. In fact the only reason I still had a full copy of the original was because of these forums.

Defn.
The buttstroke or butt-stroking, i.e., striking someone with the buttstock of a rifle

But yeah, I'd go through the tabs at least once, myself.
Unless you'd want too, like I would.

Note to self: These are people on dwarf fortress forums. Sanity of players is not a necessary design consideration.

Well, I like the idea. I like lots of ideas, you may have noticed.  :P

But the skill-tree intrigues me. Most (video) games that do stuff like that wind up... with only a few skills, invest X points in this one in order to unlock this one, but OH! until you invest equal points into the second, the first one is better, so you'd better do some grinding, sucka! Or worse, all of them suck except the SINGLE capstone skill, which is of course an endgame skill. I have yet to see a game do skill trees (where multiple points can be invested in one skill) where actually investing in the skills in the middle is worthwhile, or where there's lots of choice between skills.

I mean, D&D has feats, which are a lot like YOUR tree, but you can only take each once, unless specifically specified; and you only get 1 per 3 levels, more or less (usually slightly more, like 1-3 over 20 levels, or 10 extra in rare or unoptimized cases). Your tree AS IT IS (not trimmed down) looks actually similar to the feat trees, but with slightly more; not including splat books.

Personally, I'd be fine reading a list of an average 500 skills per tab over 6 tabs. If I could invest >1 skill point in each, too, I'd be in heaven. If some required multiple skill perquisites (dual wielding + dodge skills, for example), I'd be in heaven's version of heaven. If there were around 60 capstone skills, and a endgame character might get ~2 of them, or 1 and halfway to 3 more, I'd be in that version of heaven's heaven.

I highly doubt anyone with a shred of sanity shares my view on this.

I... hadn't considered multiple point investments. Tthat could help in some areas. Right now the trees look sort of like inverted pyramids, which makes things easy from a hierarchy standpoint.

Multiple requirements for a single skill are difficult, both because its a mess visually (see below) and because it would require a LOT more planning.  Also interesting is that it would all but require that cross-links only occur within the same basic tree, otherwise things would get stupidly messy.

With a standard wikidot syntax, the skill tree looks vaguely like this as it stands.

* Base tier
   * Second Tier
       * Third tier
   * Second Tier

Which isn't horrible. However, since wikidot has no flowchart tool into which I can embed links, a tree diagram with crosslinks would look like this

_Base Tier
| \_Second Tier
|    \_Third Tier dependent on the above and below
\___/Second Tier

As you can see, that looks decent until I start trying to shimmy in a second pre-req.

It might be better if I just added synergies into the skills later, where I could just add tags into skills that would increase their effectiveness based on skills in completely different areas. (Trauma Control getting bonuses from Knowledge: Biology) Of course, that then creates whole new complex web of things to think up.


EDIT: Since Tabview eats itself when you put it in a table, this is probably the layout I'm going with. Each major area (Confrontational, Social, Utility, Augs) has between 3 and 5 major sub-trees as seen here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 11:48:47 am by Draignean »
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #7814 on: February 27, 2014, 02:56:51 pm »

Right, so I came up with an RTD system based slightly of some of the leveling mechanics of Hell MOO.
Spoiler: Rules (click to show/hide)
I have two ideas that would use this system.

Hijackers
Related to those ideas I was talking about earlier. You play a pirate in a third world nation. You have to hijack vessels and sell the occupants off for ransom. Try to survive against increasingly desperate conditions, Navy SEALs, and increasingly high amounts of ships using security firms.
Unique Feature
A point-buy system for equipment and items earned by robbing ships (The players have to split the pay manually amongst themselves. I'm expecting a lot of player infighting, as would be appropriate for pirates). Upgrade your fishing skiff! Hire subordinates! Buy a mobile phone!

Starlight Pattern
X-Men if the school in that was run for the SCP Foundation. You are a teenager who has developed superpowers in a world where people view you as a walking atomic bomb. Your parents send you to a school in Northern Canada that is equal parts superpower school, creepy "troubled teen" rehab camp, and maximum security prison. Try to survive and possibly escape.
Unique Feature
Superpowers that the players choose themselves. Unfortunately, superpowers as controlled by teenagers. Rolls are made on a d3: 1 means it goes terribly wrong, 2 means it goes as planned, 3 means it goes extremely to plan. The dice are intentionally stacked against you. However, as you gain more control over your powers, you'll be able to upgrade to a d6, then a d10, then a d20.

One thing I am not quite sure about is which one to go with, and how advancing attributes should be or if it should even be in the system at all. Opinions?
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