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[TCM]

Just informing people I'm going to start a Gangster RTD in the future, with 6-8 players in control of their own gang. The game will center around expanding, fighting and managing resources.

I've become fascinated with the Sleeping Dogs game, and it has influenced my ideas for the game. I'm thinking it will take place in England, which already has a history of gangs. Also, unlike the United States, England has really tight gun laws, so there would be an emphasis more towards hand-to-hand and melee combat.

I'm just putting this here if anyone has an questions or ideas for this upcoming game.

I have a question. Called it? Also, how involved will the police be?

Yes. You called it.

The police will have a major role. They're the main reason you can't carry firearms; even if you conceal them or stash them in your car trunk, if they find them, you're in the slammer. Also, there is a jail system where you can be arrested. The severity of your crime(s) determines how long your in for.

Some areas will be more heavily policed then others. While they are always a serious threat, note that some can be bribed or corrupted, and a good mole can slip into their ranks from your gang.

[Person]

Yeah, I should have explained better. Here's some game mechanics I just worked out.

Research: Each research item will cost a set amount of research points. Researching is done by rolling a die, with the number it lands on being the amount of research points going toward the current research tech. You can gain more research die by building more research facilities.

Exploration: I guess a square/hex-based map would be used, with each empire exploring the map seperately.

Combat: Each ship rolls a dice and has an attack/defense value, plus hit points.The attack value is the number it must roll to have a successful attack, and it's defense value is how much damage is avoided if hit. Shields are basically extra hit points that regenerate after each battle.

Colonization: Every planet has an atmosphere value, which limits the amount of buildings and type of buildings you can place on it. At the beggining of the game, you will only be able to build sealed colonies on non-compatible worlds.

I was actually working on something like this for a bit, just simpler in some ways and more complex in others. If you need any help with it, feel free to pm me.

[monk12]

Well, in my idle browsing of the FG&R section of the forums, I stumbled across this nifty little take on fantasy grand strategy, which then reminded me of that grand strategy RTD I was working on like 50 pages ago. Remember, that one that kept trying and failing to reconcile the simplistic RTD execution with the depth of Civilization or Endless Space? That I was working on before I spawned a multitude of silly all-caps minimalist RTDs?

Yeah, it's time for Stream of Consciousness Game Design with Monk VI: Oh Yeah This Thing!

Lots has been changed, not that any of you remember its first incarnations anyway.

Spoiler: Players/Waitlist (click to show/hide)

The most active "main" players are Patricians, head of a prestigious noble house whose support is crucial to The Empire^tm. The Empire^tm is situated on a small island on another world, and has recently discovered the magical means to create a Bridge to this new world, a world full of natural resources and all kinds of good things, as well as waves upon waves of hostile Gnoll tribes. The PCs have received an Imperial Mandate to colonize and exploit the new world, and are allowed to claim land and resources as their own provided they pay tribute to the Emperor.

The PCs aren't just given free reign by The Empire^tm, however- some lands are claimed in the name of the Emperor himself, and there are Imperial forces available to help defend the citizens. The Emperor has grown old and weak- more importantly, he lacks an Heir to the throne. The twisted old man sees competition in the new world as a way to determine who should be Emperor. Periodically, The Emperor sets tasks for the Patricians- those who complete those tasks the best gain the Favor of the Emperor. The Patrician with the highest Favor of the Emperor at the time of his death receives the allegiance of the Imperial Forces- not that this is likely to deter the other Patricians from trying to take the throne for themselves! A Patrician loses when his Character is killed, and no Heir exists to continue the House. The game is over when one Patrician controls the Imperial City and controls more Regions than the other claimants combined, or when all Imperial factions have been defeated.

Random waitlisters may also "Guest Star" as rampaging Megabeasts or Warlords. Megabeasts normally have an objective of some kind, with a side of World Burning thrown in. Warlords are typically Gnolls, though in some cases they may be renegades from other factions (Imperial or otherwise.) They function as a faction much like the Patricians, but with some differences- they cannot colonize new regions, they have limited recruitment options, and they are hostile to any Imperial-aligned side. They often have higher maintenance costs and Warlords may have certain obligations imposed on them by their Horde.

Spoiler: The World (click to show/hide)

The world is grouped into regions, much like a Risk board. Regions are themselves subdivided into a number of tiles of the Region's terrain type. When a player explores, they enter a new region. The region is of a random terrain type, and is of a random size- some terrains modify how big the region can be (impassable mountains are smaller, grasslands are bigger, etc.) Tiles produce resources (Coin and Food, primarily,) and often have other interesting features, whether it be unique topography, the presence of natural resources, interesting flora or fauna, native inhabitants (hostile or otherwise,) enchantments, special structures, whatever.

Mountain terrain is impassable to most units. It may spawn with a Mountain Pass feature, which randomly connects two adjacent regions and allows movement, if not colonization. Mountainous regions sometimes have valuable resources that are difficult to acquire. They are smaller than most other regions.
Hills terrain is rugged and unsuitable for serious farming, but produces 1 Food when colonized and is often home to valuable resources. Hilly regions are average sized.
Arid (Desert/Tundra) terrain is desolate and difficult to colonize, producing no food. Arid Regions often serve as natural boundaries as life is difficult there. Arid terrain is average sized.
Plains are the preferred settling places of most citizens in the Empire, suitable for a wide variety of purposes and producing 1 Food when colonized. Plains tend to be large, sweeping regions.
Swamp terrain is boggy, marshy and unpleasant. It produces 1 Food when colonized, but most of the things you'll encounter there are nasty. Swamps are small regions.
Water terrain, like Mountains, cannot be colonized. It blocks movement unless an adjacent territory has built a Dockyard, but several Improvements take advantage of the bounty of the sea (see Tile Improvements.) Open Water is normally empty, and what is there is usually difficult to acquire. Water terrain forms large regions.

Spoiler: Patrician Stats (click to show/hide)

Imperial Favor represents how well the Emperor likes the House and is rather important. It is most important in determining who the Imperial Forces align with upon the death of the Emperor, but also factors in how the Emperor acts while still alive. Finally, players with the highest Favor act first, with Population as a tiebreaker and, if it comes down to it, a roll-off. Favor is gained by owning entire Regions and completing Imperial Mandates, and is lost by ignoring the wishes of the Emperor, failing a Task assigned by the Emperor, and losing Regions to non-Imperial forces. When Favor is less than 0, Bad Things happen.

Population is how many citizens owe the House allegiance. Population consumes Food, and produces Coin in the form of taxes. Population is also required to train military units. Population is represented as X(Y), where X is your total Population and Y is free for allocation in other activities, notably becoming Specialists. Population grows by 1 per turn as long as Food is positive and the Pop Cap has not been reached. Population that is already assigned (as Specialists, tile workers, Regiments, etc) can be moved to the unassigned Population pool, but this incurs a Happiness hit. The maximum Population you can have is determined by Improvements.

Specialists are Pops with special skill sets that are valuable to an empire. Specialists require a building to be trained at, and excess Pop to be trained. Regiments are the basic military unit, Merchants produce Coin, Performers produce Happiness, and Smiths confer benefits to your military depending on their supplies. Specific requirements and costs for Specialists are noted in their Improvement description.

Happiness is how happy the Population is. If the Population under a House becomes disaffected, Bad Things happen, ranging from lowered tax income to outright revolution. Happiness is raised by certain Improvements and Resources, lowered when Pop is drafted for militia, Pop is starving, or when things get destroyed, and Random Events play merry hell with it.

Food is how much food is produced under the direct control of your House. It is expressed as X/Y (Z) where X is the amount of food currently stockpiled in granaries, Y is the maximum amount of Food that can be stockpiled, and Z is the rate at which food is stockpiled. Food is necessary to maintain your Population, and as such is a valuable strategic asset- if you do not have enough Food to feed your people, a random number of Pops starve starting with the excess unassigned pops, followed by non-food producing Specialists (who may leave for other Houses,) followed by Regiments (who are likely to desert or go brigand rather than die,) followed by peasant farmers. Food is produced by certain Improvements and Resources, drained by Pop and Random Events, and can be directly traded between players like Resources.

Coin represents the wealth of the House. Most actions require Coin, and Coin is required to maintain a standing military. Coin is produced by Pop, Improvements and Resources, and drained by military, player action, and Imperial Tribute. Of course, Random Events can mess with this most thoroughly.

Resources are valuable assets at the disposal of the House. They commonly increase one of the other stats, and may be required for certain buildings/units/actions. Resources are normally acquired when a Tile is colonized(see Actions tab,) though some require Improvements. Resources are never consumed- control of a resource represents control of the supply of that resource, and as long as the supply is maintained the benefit is conferred. That supply line can be mucked with by enemy action or Random Events, however.

Characters are historically significant figures who are associated with the House. They are similar to Specialists, but whereas Specialists represent an entire industry, Characters are a single person with significant influence. They are most often Generals, but might be minor courtiers, artisans, political allies, generals, or anyone, really. Characters normally have maintenance costs, and if those costs cannot be met they will leave your faction for another.

Characters enter the game slowly of their own volition, though random events may cause them to spring into being. To start, they are in an unclaimed Character Pool, from which any House may attempt to recruit them. Characters join the faction who makes them the best offer- factions make offers by offering higher wage (maintenance cost) than any other faction. If two offers are equal, the Character joins neither faction. Once they exist, they have their own life and relationships- they might stay with one House their entire life, leave or be cast off as the result of Events and/or personal relationships, or they might bounce from faction to faction as a mercenary.

Spoiler: Patrician Action (click to show/hide)

In general, players should have the freedom to do what they want (results determined by standard d6,) but there are many common actions that have established costs and effects.

Explore/Expand- Players fund an organized exploration effort to any unexplored region for 2 Coin. The exploration returns knowledge of what is in that region- once explored, a player may pay 1 Coin and 1 Unassigned Pop to colonize any tile in that region, claiming it for themselves and establishing a settlement in the region. Priority for colonization starts with the exploring player, then continues in order of highest Imperial Favor. Players may Explore only once per turn, but they may Expand as long as they can pay the colonization cost.

Military Management- Players order their armies to march or fight- most armies can only move one region per turn, but there is no specific limit on the number of attacks/moves a player can make in one turn.

Region Management- Players pay Coin to construct an Improvement on a Tile, raise an Army, or assign loose Pops to new roles. Constructing an Improvement requires a loose Pop, but does not consume that Pop.

Diplomacy- Players can initiate diplomatic action, often for trading purposes. Players may treat with whomever they like, though if they consort with enemies of the Empire there may be Imperial Censure. Treaties within the Empire are enforced by Imperial might- breaking a treaty may result in heavy fines or even confiscation of territory. The Emperor normally does not care what arrangements are made between the Patricians and outside forces, but he never approves of dealings with Gnolls and reserves the right to bring Patricians into line with Imperial Foreign Policy as it changes.

Spoiler: Tiles and Improvements (click to show/hide)

Regions that have been explored can be colonized by anyone. Claims are on a per-tile basis, so multiple factions can occupy a single region- nothing prevents friendly factions from sharing regions the entire game. Houses do prefer to own entire Regions, however, as that increases Imperial Favor.

Colonized Tiles provide resources based on the terrain and other attributes of the Tile. Commonly, Tiles have Improvements built upon them that enhance their output or provide other bonuses. Improving Tiles is one of the core mechanics of the game.

Farm- Can be built on Plains or Swamp for 5 Coin. Provides +1 Food per turn.
Tract Farming- Replaces Farm, costs 10 Coin. Provides +2 Food per turn.
Cash Crops- Costs 10 Coin, gives access to a particular type of resource.

Village- Can be built on any colonizable terrain for 5 Coin, increases Population Cap by 2
Town- Replaces Village, costs 10 Coin. Increases Population Cap by 4
City- Replaces Town, costs 20 Coin. Increases Population Cap by 8, provides +1 bonus to Defending Army if they control entire Region.

Foundry- Requires adjacent Town or City, costs 10 Coin. Turns military grade metals (Iron, Bronze) resource into weapons and armor which provide a bonus in combat based on material. Takes one metal resource and equips one Army with the equipment. Allows 1 Smith Specialist, who equips another Army with his production for -2 Food as long as you control military grade metal (does not consume.)
Manufactory- Replaces Foundry, requires adjacent City, costs 10 Coin. Functions as Foundry, but the greatly expanded mass production facility allows 3 Smith Specialists.

Jeweler- Requires adjacent Town or City, costs 10 Coin. Takes one precious metal or gem resource into fine crafts, providing +1 Coin and +2 Happiness. Allows 1 Metalcrafter Specialist, who provides +1 Coin and +1 Happiness for -2 Food as long as you control a precious metal or gem (does not consume.)

Market- Requires adjacent Town or City, costs 10 Coin. The trade and flow of goods provides +1 Happiness for your citizens. Allows 1 Merchant Specialist, who provides +1 Coin.
Forum- Replaces Market, costs 10 Coin. Functions as Market, but allows 3 Merchant Specialists.

Mine- Can be built on Hills for 5 Coin, provides +1 Coin per turn
Shaft Mine- Costs 10 Coin, Provides Resource

Lumbermill- Can be built on Forest resources to provide fine lumber for 5 Coin

Dock- Can be built on any Tile adjacent to a Water Region for the cost of 10 Coin. Provides +1 Coin per turn, allows Tile Improvements to be built on the Water Region directly, and allows one Army to sail to any Region adjacent to the Water Region. Attacking from the sea incurs a -2 penalty to the attack.
Shipyard- Replaces Dock, costs 10 Coin. Provides same benefits as Dock, but extra fleets allow passage of up to 3 Armies per turn. If attacking from the sea, each extra fleet not carrying an army reduces the penalty by 1.

Fishing Village- Can be built on any Tile adjacent to a Water Region for the cost of 10 Coin. Provides +1 Food per turn.

Spoiler: Armies, Generals, and Desertion (click to show/hide)

An Army is a group of Regiments lumped together, that moves around on the world map- an Army can only be made if it has a General to lead it, and it can only grow to a size the General can manage. If the General of an Army is killed, then command defaults to a junior General in the Army- if no such commander exists, there is a 1/6 chance a young officer keeps the army together (becoming a Character,) otherwise the Army falls apart, with some Regiments deserting and the rest retreating to the nearest friendly city. Armies have Power, which reflects how capable they are in combat. Each Regiment in an army grants 1 Power.

Generals are a particular type of Character who help Armies fight- while any Character can act as Commander of an Army, only Generals are good at it, able to field larger Armies. Generals have a Logistics score which determines the size of their Army, as well as the Special Abilities of any Character that may have an effect on their performance in or out of battle. Every time a General (or any Character) survives Combat, they roll 1d6- on a 6+ they gain a positive trait, and on a 1 they gain a negative trait. Generals who win get a +1 to this check.

Desertion is what happens when an Army falls apart, whether it be a leaderless Army, a Regiment who can't be paid or fed, or Guerillas who have struck back against their perceived oppressor and survived. Roll 1d6. On a 1, the unit becomes a Brigand and terrorizes a Tile, preventing it from producing resources. On a 2-3, the unit gives up military life entirely, joining the nearest friendly faction as an unassigned Pop. On a 4-6, the unit's morale holds and it keeps fighting the good fight- this means it stays with its current faction, joining the pool of loose Regiments or joining the nearest friendly side.

Spoiler: Combat (click to show/hide)

Armies are based in particular Regions, and can move One Region per turn. Regions can comfortably house one friendly army at a time- this number can be increased by Improvements or General abilities. Armies beyond that, as well as Armies that are in hostile territory incur extra maintenance costs as it becomes difficult to supply them. Armies attack by moving into a hostile region that has an enemy army to defend it- if there is no defending army, the region is occupied by the attacker.

The first thing that happens in combat is that any special abilities of the Generals or the army's Regiments activates. Next, the Defending Army rolls its Power against the Invaders Power. The difference in the values is the number of Regiments that die for the loser- if the difference is greater than the remaining number of Regiments in the Army, the General must make a Roll to Dodge at a modifier based on the remaining difference. Less than 4 they are captured, less than 1 they are dead. After that, the Invaders repeat the process against the Defenders.

If all the defenders are dead and the attacker has units left, the attacker Occupies the Region. If the defender is victorious and has more units than the attacker, the invasion is thwarted and nothing special happens. If the attacker does not win, but still has more units than the defender, then the Region produces no resources for that turn and the attacker may designate one (non-settlement) Tile to destroy, plundering Coin as if the building had been sacrificed (see Tiles tab.)

When a Region is Occupied, the tiles within that Region may switch to the House of the Occupier. For each Tile, the Occupier rolls 1d6 + Happiness - former Happiness. On a 4+, the Tile switches to the Occupier. On 2+, the Tile switches to the Occupier but does not produce anything for two turns. On 1 or less, the Tile rises up against the invader, and the Region suffers Unrest.

During Unrest, impromptu Guerrillas resist the occupation, and engage in combat against the invaders. Guerrillas have 1 Power, and desert after the combat. Regions that have experienced Unrest do not produce any resources, and next turn the Unrest might continue. The Region rolls 1d6-Rebellious Tiles, with  4-6 causing the Rebellion to die out and every point below 1 causing the Unrest to spread to a new Tile. The Emperor does not condone rebellion of any kind, and allows extreme measures to deal with it. Armies may assign Regiments to Tiles for a turn, which provides +2 bonus to the next Unrest roll but also keeps them from participating in any combat. Alternately, the conqueror may Exterminate a Tile, killing the Rebellious Pop in a single Tile per turn. This requires one free Regiment, but allows that Regiment to participate in combat.

Spoiler: Sample Starting House (click to show/hide)

House Jordain
Imperial Favor: 1
Population: 5/5(5)
Specialists: None
Happiness: 5
Food: 20/20(-5)
Coin: 10
Resources: None
Characters:
   Patrician Monk of House Jordain: Personal Bodyguard, Head of House, Logistics 3, Farmer

I was going to write down more Traits as well as work on a Random Event table, but I'm tired now. Note that none of the numbers here are set in stone, and are almost certainly going to change based on preliminary testing and thinking about how the flow of the game should be. This really needs a bit of reorganization to make things easier to find, and a lot of stuff doesn't have numbers yet as I'm still working on that. I'm debating dropping the Happiness stat- it's main purpose is in Occupation and as a check on growth, and I can find something else for the former and the latter is, if anything, undesirable given the number of horrors I plan to unleash in game. If you have suggestions in that vein or on the work as a whole, give me some feedback!

[IronyOwl]

So, I have a weird problem. I've been working with an idea for a bit, and a lot of it seems finished. But... something's wrong. I'm not sure what, but it feels like it's not really a whole game yet.

Spoiler: The Map (Or Lack Thereof) (click to show/hide)

I'm a little on the fence about this part, but the original plan was for the game to take place with three tribes arranged equidistant from each other, with each tribe having a direct path to each other tribe and then a path to the center.

The path to each other consists of three spaces on each side, and then a center middle space. Controlling the center middle space allows access to goodies, so it's advantageous to "win" in your lanes.

Speaking of which, every few rounds another wave spawns from each player on each lane. When two armies meet, they do battle. Unless it's two armies of the same tribe catching up to each other, in which case they merge. The units that spawn for you are determined by the structures you build at that lane.


As an alternative to the spacing thing, I've also considered just having a new army spawn and do battle every turn, with victory carrying them a space into enemy territory and defeat pushing the enemy into yours. Easier to track, but might have some unintended consequences regarding armies stacking or the benefits of winning.

Spoiler: Units and Armies and Combat (click to show/hide)

Units are your fighting critters. Armies are collections of units. An army's stats are the sum of its member units, so if you have five units with 1 Attack and 2 HP each, your army will have 5 Attack and 10 HP.

The units that spawn for you are determined by the structures you build at that lane. Most units have either 1 Attack and 2 HP, or 2 Attack and 1 HP (and are ranged), or some multiple of those. Level 3 Hunters have 6 Attack and 3 HP, for instance.

The difference between several level 1 units and fewer higher level units has not been determined yet. Some abilities or situations would be better for one or the other, but I'm uncertain if, innately, higher level units would be "better" or more expensive or not.

Spoiler: Combat (click to show/hide)

Combat is relatively simple. Each army rolls an opposing d6; whoever rolls higher deals its Attack score in damage to the enemy. In the event that the combatants are tied, they deal damage to each other simultaneously.

A unit that takes damage then loses units accordingly. In the event that an army takes at least as much damage as it has HP, it's destroyed outright. Otherwise, units soak up damage and are removed according to the following criteria:

1. A unit always loses exactly as much HP as needed to kill it. A unit with 2 HP will never take 1 damage unless there is only 1 damage remaining, for instance, nor will it ever absorb 3 damage.

2. Units are lost in the most convenient manner for the defender according to their Attack:HP ratio. Units with 1 Attack and 2 HP would obviously be sacrificed before units with 2 Attack and 1 HP, for instance.

3. There may be some sort of front and rear line distinction, in which case frontline units must be depleted to access rearline units. In most cases this wouldn't really come up for mundane combat, since presumably most ranged units would have low HP and high damage and most frontliners would be reversed anyway, but it could. For instance, a unit with unusually high stats for its cost could make up for it by having the Berserker trait, which forces it to be in the frontline or take damage first.

Spoiler: Heroes (click to show/hide)

Every tribe gets a Hero. Under normal circumstances, one is all they'd need, but getting more heroes might be possible under certain circumstances (your old one dying is an obvious one).

Heroes are largely similar to normal units, but possess a few important differences.

For one, heroes may move freely, rather than following a set pattern. This means they may reinforce any lane you wish, and can even go off and do something totally different if you're in control of a region that allows it.

Secondly, heroes function a bit differently in battle. I'm still working out the details, but ranged heroes are always damaged last. Melee heroes are either the same, or always soak 1 point and only 1 point of damage if they can afford to, then pass the rest on to everyone else.

Third, and most noticeably, heroes gain experience which they then use to increase their stats and gain skills with.


Currently, experience tentatively works like so: Every time a hero engages in lane battle, they gain 1 xp. When they battle enemies outside a lane, they generally gain 1 xp per 3 stats total an enemy had (1 xp for a 2 Attack, 1 HP unit; 2 xp for a 2 Attack, 4 HP unit; etc). Also, any hero that survives a situation by winning a battle- that is, they'd be dead had they lost- automatically gains either a free trait of some kind of a fair chunk of experience. Given that the odds of doing so are less than 50/50, however, this is not generally recommended as a levelup strategy.

Costs are also extremely tentative, but a hero can gain the following:

HP: Obviously, more HP makes it harder to kill a hero. Unsure of the cost ratio to attack.
Attack: Attack gives a hero more killing power. Unsure of the cost ratio to HP.
AP: Ability Power is mana, essentially. It's used for activating special abilities.

Special Skills: Unsure of exactly how skills should be priced, but skills that use AP will generally function on a special system. Essentially, the first skill of a given level you get will be fairly expensive, while all skills you acquire of an equal or lower level will be cheap. This is to accommodate the fact that, since they're limited by the same resource, getting Rank 3 of two skills is usually much, much worse than Rank 6 of a single skill, unless they're massively, completely situational.

Passive or costless skills will likely be available, but they'd probably be very situational and/or massively costly.


Two sample skills are listed below.

Cleave (Functions against accessible targets only, meaning frontline only assuming there is one; might include bypassing this if there aren't enough targets, deciding on whether it hits before or after normal combat damage, or something similar to avoid an army of 1 frontliner and 10 archers completely foiling the move)
Rank 1: Deal 1 damage to up to 3 targets
Rank 2: Deal 1 damage to up to 6 targets
Rank 3: Deal 2 damage to up to 3 targets
Rank 4: Deal 2 damage to up to 6 targets
Rank 5: Deal 3 damage to up to 3 targets
Rank 6: Deal 3 damage to up to 6 targets

Sniper Shot (Targets may be selected at will [possibly not heroes, though])
Rank 1: Deal 1 damage to 1 target
Rank 2: Deal 1 damage to 2 targets
Rank 3: Deal 2 damage to 1 target
Rank 4: Deal 2 damage to 2 targets
Rank 5: Deal 3 damage to 1 target
Rank 6: Deal 3 damage to 2 targets

Spoiler: Retinues and Special Options (click to show/hide)

Heroes have one final quirk- the ability to carry minions around with them via the Leadership trait. Leadership allows you to add to a hero's stats more quickly than normal by turning him into his own army, but also requires you build special structures to recruit followers for him. Still uncertain as to the exact relationship between the two choices, but it's generally assumed most heroes will get Leadership and carry around some mooks to augment themselves.

As a special case, I'm strongly considering giving each hero the option for a Lieutenant, either as a separate special trait or as an automatic feature to Leadership. A Lieutenant is a special unit in two ways- one, it can be something different from your tribe's normal members, such as a pet bear or elven squire, which potentially allows him different traits than normal. Secondly, he can gain experience, albeit at a slower rate (or at higher costs) to your Hero.

Heroes can also have special buildings built for them to allow them to heal, recover AP, recruit followers, and so on. Other special buildings might be possible, but probably rare- a weapon shop wouldn't be completely out of the question, for instance, but it'd be much, much more questionable than you'd think.

Spoiler: Lane Control (click to show/hide)

In the event that your side is winning in a lane, it's likely you'll have access to some potential benefits in that lane.

In the case of the direct lanes to your opponents, this generally means access to neutral, scattered monsters to hunt and kill. Incidentally, these monsters would most likely be drawn from waitlister/past game tribes. In either case, doing so would be a quicker way to level your hero and might reward extra materials as well.

In the case of the middle lane, that wraps around a wizard's tower, though the exact benefits are uncertain. They might just have access to a better selection of hostiles to butcher, or they might be able to quest for a random magic item.


In either case, losing control of a spot generally restricts your ability to use it and might have unfortunate consequences if you were in the middle of something.

Spoiler: Buildings and Resources (click to show/hide)

There's only one tribal resource, at present- bones. Bones come from your slain enemies, though the specifics are a little fuzzy at the moment.

Bones are used to build and upgrade things. There's power in bones, after all.

The most obvious structures are unit producers for a given lane. These allow you to do better in that lane, pushing your enemies back and gaining access to special features. Upgrading these structures might work as normal, be more expensive for their benefit, or require some special reagent or quest, such as the skull of a specific neutral monster.

Other structures are generally for the benefit of your hero, though buildings to upgrade or allow upgrades to all of your troops aren't out of the question either. They may be varied in purpose and cost, but the most common are probably just there for your hero to recover health in. As with troop producers, more special buildings might require special reagents; I'm uncertain.

So, in theory this gives us a general game flow- players decide where to send their heroes, their armies battle it out across three different fronts, and when you're winning you generally swoop in to battle different monsters or acquire loot or something. Players would probably be able to custom design things based on their race, within certain limits.

Oh, and one more thing- this was intended to be episodic. The game goes on, one player crushes his two rivals, round ends. Then the new round begins after some rebalancing and in the ruins of the winner's glorious empire, which would presumably have some impact. Possibly influencing the types of hero items available, for instance?

Anyway, the issue is that it feels incomplete in a way I have trouble describing. Maybe there's just literally not enough for the players to do, since they might not be building structures every turn and commanding a lone hero to smash A, B, or C isn't very fulfilling? Or maybe I'm having trouble balancing my desire for one player to not begin snowballing over the others with my intention to have the game end at some point? Or maybe I'm just taking all the stuff I'm not sure of more seriously internally than I am consciously?

I dunno, but I feel like I need help.

[IronyOwl]

Lots has been changed, not that any of you remember its first incarnations anyway.

I do! Vaguely. Better now that I've read most of the new version.

I was going to write down more Traits as well as work on a Random Event table, but I'm tired now. Note that none of the numbers here are set in stone, and are almost certainly going to change based on preliminary testing and thinking about how the flow of the game should be. This really needs a bit of reorganization to make things easier to find, and a lot of stuff doesn't have numbers yet as I'm still working on that. I'm debating dropping the Happiness stat- it's main purpose is in Occupation and as a check on growth, and I can find something else for the former and the latter is, if anything, undesirable given the number of horrors I plan to unleash in game. If you have suggestions in that vein or on the work as a whole, give me some feedback!

I like that backstory and concept, and it looks good so far. Nothing useful to add, I'm afraid; maybe once I've thought about it and understand some parts (combat) better. Well okay, maybe one useful thing to add.

I will agree that Happiness seems underused, however, but I'm not sure what you'd replace it with. Theoretically nothing, or making it completely neutral unless you have specific modifiers to the contrary (can build brothels in a region to raise happiness, or work camps to produce extra coin but reduce it, for instance). That might require some careful balancing, however, to make it worthwhile to spend coin and tiles making your regions more of a pain in the ass to conquer once they've already smashed all your troops.

[monk12]

So, I have a weird problem. I've been working with an idea for a bit, and a lot of it seems finished. But... something's wrong. I'm not sure what, but it feels like it's not really a whole game yet.

Spoiler: The Map (Or Lack Thereof) (click to show/hide)

I'm a little on the fence about this part, but the original plan was for the game to take place with three tribes arranged equidistant from each other, with each tribe having a direct path to each other tribe and then a path to the center.

The path to each other consists of three spaces on each side, and then a center middle space. Controlling the center middle space allows access to goodies, so it's advantageous to "win" in your lanes.

Speaking of which, every few rounds another wave spawns from each player on each lane. When two armies meet, they do battle. Unless it's two armies of the same tribe catching up to each other, in which case they merge. The units that spawn for you are determined by the structures you build at that lane.


As an alternative to the spacing thing, I've also considered just having a new army spawn and do battle every turn, with victory carrying them a space into enemy territory and defeat pushing the enemy into yours. Easier to track, but might have some unintended consequences regarding armies stacking or the benefits of winning.

Spoiler: Units and Armies and Combat (click to show/hide)

Units are your fighting critters. Armies are collections of units. An army's stats are the sum of its member units, so if you have five units with 1 Attack and 2 HP each, your army will have 5 Attack and 10 HP.

The units that spawn for you are determined by the structures you build at that lane. Most units have either 1 Attack and 2 HP, or 2 Attack and 1 HP (and are ranged), or some multiple of those. Level 3 Hunters have 6 Attack and 3 HP, for instance.

The difference between several level 1 units and fewer higher level units has not been determined yet. Some abilities or situations would be better for one or the other, but I'm uncertain if, innately, higher level units would be "better" or more expensive or not.

Spoiler: Combat (click to show/hide)

Combat is relatively simple. Each army rolls an opposing d6; whoever rolls higher deals its Attack score in damage to the enemy. In the event that the combatants are tied, they deal damage to each other simultaneously.

A unit that takes damage then loses units accordingly. In the event that an army takes at least as much damage as it has HP, it's destroyed outright. Otherwise, units soak up damage and are removed according to the following criteria:

1. A unit always loses exactly as much HP as needed to kill it. A unit with 2 HP will never take 1 damage unless there is only 1 damage remaining, for instance, nor will it ever absorb 3 damage.

2. Units are lost in the most convenient manner for the defender according to their Attack:HP ratio. Units with 1 Attack and 2 HP would obviously be sacrificed before units with 2 Attack and 1 HP, for instance.

3. There may be some sort of front and rear line distinction, in which case frontline units must be depleted to access rearline units. In most cases this wouldn't really come up for mundane combat, since presumably most ranged units would have low HP and high damage and most frontliners would be reversed anyway, but it could. For instance, a unit with unusually high stats for its cost could make up for it by having the Berserker trait, which forces it to be in the frontline or take damage first.

Spoiler: Heroes (click to show/hide)

Every tribe gets a Hero. Under normal circumstances, one is all they'd need, but getting more heroes might be possible under certain circumstances (your old one dying is an obvious one).

Heroes are largely similar to normal units, but possess a few important differences.

For one, heroes may move freely, rather than following a set pattern. This means they may reinforce any lane you wish, and can even go off and do something totally different if you're in control of a region that allows it.

Secondly, heroes function a bit differently in battle. I'm still working out the details, but ranged heroes are always damaged last. Melee heroes are either the same, or always soak 1 point and only 1 point of damage if they can afford to, then pass the rest on to everyone else.

Third, and most noticeably, heroes gain experience which they then use to increase their stats and gain skills with.


Currently, experience tentatively works like so: Every time a hero engages in lane battle, they gain 1 xp. When they battle enemies outside a lane, they generally gain 1 xp per 3 stats total an enemy had (1 xp for a 2 Attack, 1 HP unit; 2 xp for a 2 Attack, 4 HP unit; etc). Also, any hero that survives a situation by winning a battle- that is, they'd be dead had they lost- automatically gains either a free trait of some kind of a fair chunk of experience. Given that the odds of doing so are less than 50/50, however, this is not generally recommended as a levelup strategy.

Costs are also extremely tentative, but a hero can gain the following:

HP: Obviously, more HP makes it harder to kill a hero. Unsure of the cost ratio to attack.
Attack: Attack gives a hero more killing power. Unsure of the cost ratio to HP.
AP: Ability Power is mana, essentially. It's used for activating special abilities.

Special Skills: Unsure of exactly how skills should be priced, but skills that use AP will generally function on a special system. Essentially, the first skill of a given level you get will be fairly expensive, while all skills you acquire of an equal or lower level will be cheap. This is to accommodate the fact that, since they're limited by the same resource, getting Rank 3 of two skills is usually much, much worse than Rank 6 of a single skill, unless they're massively, completely situational.

Passive or costless skills will likely be available, but they'd probably be very situational and/or massively costly.


Two sample skills are listed below.

Cleave (Functions against accessible targets only, meaning frontline only assuming there is one; might include bypassing this if there aren't enough targets, deciding on whether it hits before or after normal combat damage, or something similar to avoid an army of 1 frontliner and 10 archers completely foiling the move)
Rank 1: Deal 1 damage to up to 3 targets
Rank 2: Deal 1 damage to up to 6 targets
Rank 3: Deal 2 damage to up to 3 targets
Rank 4: Deal 2 damage to up to 6 targets
Rank 5: Deal 3 damage to up to 3 targets
Rank 6: Deal 3 damage to up to 6 targets

Sniper Shot (Targets may be selected at will [possibly not heroes, though])
Rank 1: Deal 1 damage to 1 target
Rank 2: Deal 1 damage to 2 targets
Rank 3: Deal 2 damage to 1 target
Rank 4: Deal 2 damage to 2 targets
Rank 5: Deal 3 damage to 1 target
Rank 6: Deal 3 damage to 2 targets

Spoiler: Retinues and Special Options (click to show/hide)

Heroes have one final quirk- the ability to carry minions around with them via the Leadership trait. Leadership allows you to add to a hero's stats more quickly than normal by turning him into his own army, but also requires you build special structures to recruit followers for him. Still uncertain as to the exact relationship between the two choices, but it's generally assumed most heroes will get Leadership and carry around some mooks to augment themselves.

As a special case, I'm strongly considering giving each hero the option for a Lieutenant, either as a separate special trait or as an automatic feature to Leadership. A Lieutenant is a special unit in two ways- one, it can be something different from your tribe's normal members, such as a pet bear or elven squire, which potentially allows him different traits than normal. Secondly, he can gain experience, albeit at a slower rate (or at higher costs) to your Hero.

Heroes can also have special buildings built for them to allow them to heal, recover AP, recruit followers, and so on. Other special buildings might be possible, but probably rare- a weapon shop wouldn't be completely out of the question, for instance, but it'd be much, much more questionable than you'd think.

Spoiler: Lane Control (click to show/hide)

In the event that your side is winning in a lane, it's likely you'll have access to some potential benefits in that lane.

In the case of the direct lanes to your opponents, this generally means access to neutral, scattered monsters to hunt and kill. Incidentally, these monsters would most likely be drawn from waitlister/past game tribes. In either case, doing so would be a quicker way to level your hero and might reward extra materials as well.

In the case of the middle lane, that wraps around a wizard's tower, though the exact benefits are uncertain. They might just have access to a better selection of hostiles to butcher, or they might be able to quest for a random magic item.


In either case, losing control of a spot generally restricts your ability to use it and might have unfortunate consequences if you were in the middle of something.

Spoiler: Buildings and Resources (click to show/hide)

There's only one tribal resource, at present- bones. Bones come from your slain enemies, though the specifics are a little fuzzy at the moment.

Bones are used to build and upgrade things. There's power in bones, after all.

The most obvious structures are unit producers for a given lane. These allow you to do better in that lane, pushing your enemies back and gaining access to special features. Upgrading these structures might work as normal, be more expensive for their benefit, or require some special reagent or quest, such as the skull of a specific neutral monster.

Other structures are generally for the benefit of your hero, though buildings to upgrade or allow upgrades to all of your troops aren't out of the question either. They may be varied in purpose and cost, but the most common are probably just there for your hero to recover health in. As with troop producers, more special buildings might require special reagents; I'm uncertain.

Are armies generated fresh every turn and then melt away after the fight, or do they persist so you can snowball if unchecked? Is it automatic that they constantly attack, or can you build up a force before striking out? From how I read it, it sounds like they just kindof automatically surge against one another and they only input the player has on the battle is whether a Hero joins in. Thus, players would spend their time sending Heroes to lanes where they are outnumbered to keep their opponent from building up an unstoppable force.

How does "goody extraction" work? Do you just say your Hero ignores the army fight on a lane to go kill random d00ds for loot and xp, or do they play a role in the battles themselves- Jawas sniping at Stormtroopers, etc?

I REALLY like the Combat system you've got going- I wouldn't futz with it at all, and any cases where units should definitely take damage first/last would be fine to handle through traits. I just might nick that system for the one I'm working on.

So, in theory this gives us a general game flow- players decide where to send their heroes, their armies battle it out across three different fronts, and when you're winning you generally swoop in to battle different monsters or acquire loot or something. Players would probably be able to custom design things based on their race, within certain limits.

Oh, and one more thing- this was intended to be episodic. The game goes on, one player crushes his two rivals, round ends. Then the new round begins after some rebalancing and in the ruins of the winner's glorious empire, which would presumably have some impact. Possibly influencing the types of hero items available, for instance?

Anyway, the issue is that it feels incomplete in a way I have trouble describing. Maybe there's just literally not enough for the players to do, since they might not be building structures every turn and commanding a lone hero to smash A, B, or C isn't very fulfilling? Or maybe I'm having trouble balancing my desire for one player to not begin snowballing over the others with my intention to have the game end at some point? Or maybe I'm just taking all the stuff I'm not sure of more seriously internally than I am consciously?

I dunno, but I feel like I need help.

I think you hit it with the "not a lot to do" bit. To define it a bit further, there aren't many choices for a player to make, and not many factors complicating that choice. Send your Hero where he is needed most (which will be either "where I'm about to lose" or "where I'm about to win") and if you're winning overall send him on sidequests to try and hit a home run to end the game. Players don't have a lot to balance other than "Where can I put my Hero to generate the most bones this turn compared to the other players?"

As the economy aspect of the game is directly tied to the combat, you've got a significant Positive Reinforcement thing going on- win your first battles, get more bones than anyone else, build more structures with them to spam more units and win most subsequent battles. Once you hit a certain threshold, it becomes difficult if not impossible to overcome. I will not that this is not necessarily a bad thing- it lends itself to short, quick rounds, and puts a lot of emphasis on making good decisions since if you make a couple mistakes you're too far behind to catch up. Of course, that ties into the first point in that players don't have many decisions to make, which instead puts the emphasis on how lucky you are your first couple battles.

If it were me, I might throw in a basic Population mechanic. Basically, you have a certain number of warriors at base ready to fight at the start of the turn. The players allocate the warriors to different lanes (secretly, of course) specifying what type of unit they become based on the structures available on that lane- one lane might have Spearmen and Archer equipment areas, while another might have Horses and Axes, or however your units play with one another. The armies go off and do their thing, rinse and repeat. That way, the players can influence the overall war short of Hero placement, and allows for alliances (I won't send any against you if you don't send any against me, let's beat up on the leader.)

Lots has been changed, not that any of you remember its first incarnations anyway.

I do! Vaguely. Better now that I've read most of the new version.

I was going to write down more Traits as well as work on a Random Event table, but I'm tired now. Note that none of the numbers here are set in stone, and are almost certainly going to change based on preliminary testing and thinking about how the flow of the game should be. This really needs a bit of reorganization to make things easier to find, and a lot of stuff doesn't have numbers yet as I'm still working on that. I'm debating dropping the Happiness stat- it's main purpose is in Occupation and as a check on growth, and I can find something else for the former and the latter is, if anything, undesirable given the number of horrors I plan to unleash in game. If you have suggestions in that vein or on the work as a whole, give me some feedback!

I like that backstory and concept, and it looks good so far. Nothing useful to add, I'm afraid; maybe once I've thought about it and understand some parts (combat) better. Well okay, maybe one useful thing to add.

I will agree that Happiness seems underused, however, but I'm not sure what you'd replace it with. Theoretically nothing, or making it completely neutral unless you have specific modifiers to the contrary (can build brothels in a region to raise happiness, or work camps to produce extra coin but reduce it, for instance). That might require some careful balancing, however, to make it worthwhile to spend coin and tiles making your regions more of a pain in the ass to conquer once they've already smashed all your troops.

I think part of my problem is I'm not sure what I want Happiness to be for, exactly. Right now, it's halfway between being "Have a lot of this so you're hard to conquer" bonus and "Don't ignore this or shit will go down" punishment. In a broader sense, when I think "Grand Strategy" I expect there to be a way to compete without optimizing everything for Military Spam. Research is inappropriate for what I want to accomplish, so I think what I want is for Happiness to represent how good you are at governing your people, and provide balance against the military aspect of the game.

Of course, the stated goal of the game is "Eventual Civil War," so it makes sense for everything to revolve around making a Military machine. I'm currently mulling a way for Happiness to play a role in attracting new Characters to the House, possibly as the result of a Random Event. Actually, just having lots of Random Events that reward High Happiness might be a good way to go about it...*mumbles incoherently to self*

In general, the Happiness mechanic definitely needs reworking to more of a baseline thing like you mentioned. I will say a big part of the reason it exists at all is so that Specialists can affect things other than Food and Coin, since the other Patrician Stats aren't really things you'd expect a random Jeweler to affect. This is especially important since Food effectively equals Coin, since it allows you to support more Population and thus get more taxes.

That's another thing I'm debating though, whether to drop the "Population = Coin income in Taxes" aspect, and make Coin income dependent on Markets you built and Resources you build on. Puts more emphasis on Specialists as well...

bah! Enough rambling, more sleeping.

[IronyOwl]

Are armies generated fresh every turn and then melt away after the fight, or do they persist so you can snowball if unchecked? Is it automatic that they constantly attack, or can you build up a force before striking out? From how I read it, it sounds like they just kindof automatically surge against one another and they only input the player has on the battle is whether a Hero joins in. Thus, players would spend their time sending Heroes to lanes where they are outnumbered to keep their opponent from building up an unstoppable force.

They persist and can snowball, yes. I sort of forgot to mention what happens when they reach an enemy base, partially because I'm a little unsure myself, but the short answer is they start pillaging, assuming they've destroyed your tower. Each lane has one, and it's powerful, so it takes either a very strong force or some constant whittling to break through it.

Players have no control over the armies.

How does "goody extraction" work? Do you just say your Hero ignores the army fight on a lane to go kill random d00ds for loot and xp, or do they play a role in the battles themselves- Jawas sniping at Stormtroopers, etc?

I'm not sure what that example is supposed to mean, but goody extraction consists of your hero going off into the woods to kill things rather than fighting with the lane. It requires the path to the woods be clear, however.

I REALLY like the Combat system you've got going- I wouldn't futz with it at all, and any cases where units should definitely take damage first/last would be fine to handle through traits. I just might nick that system for the one I'm working on.

Well that's good, at least.

I think you hit it with the "not a lot to do" bit. To define it a bit further, there aren't many choices for a player to make, and not many factors complicating that choice. Send your Hero where he is needed most (which will be either "where I'm about to lose" or "where I'm about to win") and if you're winning overall send him on sidequests to try and hit a home run to end the game. Players don't have a lot to balance other than "Where can I put my Hero to generate the most bones this turn compared to the other players?"

Yeah, I think you may be right. There is some troop and base management going on, but not a massive amount.

As the economy aspect of the game is directly tied to the combat, you've got a significant Positive Reinforcement thing going on- win your first battles, get more bones than anyone else, build more structures with them to spam more units and win most subsequent battles. Once you hit a certain threshold, it becomes difficult if not impossible to overcome. I will not that this is not necessarily a bad thing- it lends itself to short, quick rounds, and puts a lot of emphasis on making good decisions since if you make a couple mistakes you're too far behind to catch up. Of course, that ties into the first point in that players don't have many decisions to make, which instead puts the emphasis on how lucky you are your first couple battles.

That's one of the things I'm sort of struggling with- on the one hand, I don't want the first player to get lucky to just snowball out of control. On the other hand, I want the game to end at some point.

If it were me, I might throw in a basic Population mechanic. Basically, you have a certain number of warriors at base ready to fight at the start of the turn. The players allocate the warriors to different lanes (secretly, of course) specifying what type of unit they become based on the structures available on that lane- one lane might have Spearmen and Archer equipment areas, while another might have Horses and Axes, or however your units play with one another. The armies go off and do their thing, rinse and repeat. That way, the players can influence the overall war short of Hero placement, and allows for alliances (I won't send any against you if you don't send any against me, let's beat up on the leader.)

I might go for something like this, but there are a few problems.

For one thing, the current method makes any lane changes slow; this makes them abrupt. It's not really possible, using the system I have currently, to one-shot someone in one turn because they didn't have enough guys, for instance; with this one, it is, or at least it is barring the delay as they work their way over there.

Secondly, I dislike the idea of players PMing every turn. I think it complicates things, and removes the reminder that the other players have input their turns already.


So, as for what I would do, not certain. Maybe the lane delay would be enough to not worry about someone suddenly putting all their forces in one lane,  but then that kind of cheapens the decisionmaking process anyway. I could maybe go for some sort of hybrid system, where some of your forces are static and some are moveable, or maybe even just make the distinction a matter of cost efficiency, so you can build up in a lane but be unable to change it later, or get fewer troops total but be able to move them around at will.

Alternatively, I wonder if just buffing hero choices could fix this. If we view it as doing everything with your hero on the backdrop of your base infrastructure, it doesn't sound that bad to not have all that many choices; it's more or less an RPG with extra elements. The only trouble, of course, being that RPGs tend to have more choices to make up for that, like where to go beyond "Lane A, B, C, or The Dungeon if you've unlocked it." I'm not sure how I'd add enough decisionmaking to the hero to make that work.

In a broader sense, when I think "Grand Strategy" I expect there to be a way to compete without optimizing everything for Military Spam. Research is inappropriate for what I want to accomplish, so I think what I want is for Happiness to represent how good you are at governing your people, and provide balance against the military aspect of the game.

Of course, the stated goal of the game is "Eventual Civil War," so it makes sense for everything to revolve around making a Military machine. I'm currently mulling a way for Happiness to play a role in attracting new Characters to the House, possibly as the result of a Random Event. Actually, just having lots of Random Events that reward High Happiness might be a good way to go about it...*mumbles incoherently to self*

Hm. I suppose treating Happiness as an alternative to a good military could work, if you can figure out how. Maybe economic or otherwise noncombat specialists could just be the peaceful equivalent to troops?

I guess another way to do that would be to look at the two extremes or archetypes. Obviously there's somebody who's sane or whatever, but that's boring; let's look at General Ripper and Accountant Fizzlesticks for a minute.

Currently, General Ripper can mess things up, but in exchange if he loses a region, not that he's going to, they'll convert easier, while if he conquers a region, which he obviously will, they'll refuse to be conquered for a few rounds and might even send some weak units for him to slap into submission.

Accountant Fizzlesticks can't really do anything, but if he gets conquered, which is likely, his regions will refuse to produce for the enemy for a few turns, while if he conquers someone else, which isn't going to happen, they'll convert much more rapidly.


So, obviously that's not a good decision. If you think in terms of what the options should be, it probably seems like General Ripper should be good at his military thing but have problems at home, whereas Accountant Fizzlesticks shouldn't have much military power but be able to do more with what he's got.

Or, the way I see it, General Ripper doesn't have much civilization going. He's got good troops, sure, but his people aren't really very well-fed or literate or able to do much other than gear up for war. Accountant Fizzlesticks' people, on the other hand, can't do much against gnolls or whatever but have a thriving culture and economy and such.

I assume there'd have to be something to that approach other than just getting more favor, not least of all because favor doesn't do you a lot of good if your head is on a pike right now, but that could be a component.

That's another thing I'm debating though, whether to drop the "Population = Coin income in Taxes" aspect, and make Coin income dependent on Markets you built and Resources you build on. Puts more emphasis on Specialists as well...

Uncertain of this, but I will say that whenever X = Y, I'm a bit dubious as to why both are in the game at all. The two don't appear to be entirely the same in this case, though, since pop is something you use to claim tiles with or keep on hand to actually do anything, while coin is expended to improve those tiles.

[monk12]

Spoiler: Tribe Game Thing (click to show/hide)

Are armies generated fresh every turn and then melt away after the fight, or do they persist so you can snowball if unchecked? Is it automatic that they constantly attack, or can you build up a force before striking out? From how I read it, it sounds like they just kindof automatically surge against one another and they only input the player has on the battle is whether a Hero joins in. Thus, players would spend their time sending Heroes to lanes where they are outnumbered to keep their opponent from building up an unstoppable force.

They persist and can snowball, yes. I sort of forgot to mention what happens when they reach an enemy base, partially because I'm a little unsure myself, but the short answer is they start pillaging, assuming they've destroyed your tower. Each lane has one, and it's powerful, so it takes either a very strong force or some constant whittling to break through it.

Players have no control over the armies.

How does "goody extraction" work? Do you just say your Hero ignores the army fight on a lane to go kill random d00ds for loot and xp, or do they play a role in the battles themselves- Jawas sniping at Stormtroopers, etc?

I'm not sure what that example is supposed to mean, but goody extraction consists of your hero going off into the woods to kill things rather than fighting with the lane. It requires the path to the woods be clear, however.

I REALLY like the Combat system you've got going- I wouldn't futz with it at all, and any cases where units should definitely take damage first/last would be fine to handle through traits. I just might nick that system for the one I'm working on.

Well that's good, at least.

I think you hit it with the "not a lot to do" bit. To define it a bit further, there aren't many choices for a player to make, and not many factors complicating that choice. Send your Hero where he is needed most (which will be either "where I'm about to lose" or "where I'm about to win") and if you're winning overall send him on sidequests to try and hit a home run to end the game. Players don't have a lot to balance other than "Where can I put my Hero to generate the most bones this turn compared to the other players?"

Yeah, I think you may be right. There is some troop and base management going on, but not a massive amount.

As the economy aspect of the game is directly tied to the combat, you've got a significant Positive Reinforcement thing going on- win your first battles, get more bones than anyone else, build more structures with them to spam more units and win most subsequent battles. Once you hit a certain threshold, it becomes difficult if not impossible to overcome. I will not that this is not necessarily a bad thing- it lends itself to short, quick rounds, and puts a lot of emphasis on making good decisions since if you make a couple mistakes you're too far behind to catch up. Of course, that ties into the first point in that players don't have many decisions to make, which instead puts the emphasis on how lucky you are your first couple battles.

That's one of the things I'm sort of struggling with- on the one hand, I don't want the first player to get lucky to just snowball out of control. On the other hand, I want the game to end at some point.

If it were me, I might throw in a basic Population mechanic. Basically, you have a certain number of warriors at base ready to fight at the start of the turn. The players allocate the warriors to different lanes (secretly, of course) specifying what type of unit they become based on the structures available on that lane- one lane might have Spearmen and Archer equipment areas, while another might have Horses and Axes, or however your units play with one another. The armies go off and do their thing, rinse and repeat. That way, the players can influence the overall war short of Hero placement, and allows for alliances (I won't send any against you if you don't send any against me, let's beat up on the leader.)

I might go for something like this, but there are a few problems.

For one thing, the current method makes any lane changes slow; this makes them abrupt. It's not really possible, using the system I have currently, to one-shot someone in one turn because they didn't have enough guys, for instance; with this one, it is, or at least it is barring the delay as they work their way over there.

Secondly, I dislike the idea of players PMing every turn. I think it complicates things, and removes the reminder that the other players have input their turns already.


So, as for what I would do, not certain. Maybe the lane delay would be enough to not worry about someone suddenly putting all their forces in one lane,  but then that kind of cheapens the decisionmaking process anyway. I could maybe go for some sort of hybrid system, where some of your forces are static and some are moveable, or maybe even just make the distinction a matter of cost efficiency, so you can build up in a lane but be unable to change it later, or get fewer troops total but be able to move them around at will.

Alternatively, I wonder if just buffing hero choices could fix this. If we view it as doing everything with your hero on the backdrop of your base infrastructure, it doesn't sound that bad to not have all that many choices; it's more or less an RPG with extra elements. The only trouble, of course, being that RPGs tend to have more choices to make up for that, like where to go beyond "Lane A, B, C, or The Dungeon if you've unlocked it." I'm not sure how I'd add enough decisionmaking to the hero to make that work.

The "Focus on the Hero" idea intrigues me, as that could be a good way to make the game more interesting to play without deviating too far from your established army mechanics. Obviously, adding more decisionmaking to the Hero is the hard part about that. Probably the most direct route would be to give the Hero more (and more powerful) abilities while keeping AP regeneration fairly low. That way, players have to balance AP management against the gains they would get for an immediate boost in the battle- is the current push worth leaving my Hero vulnerable? Is the gain worth not having enough AP to activate the more powerful ability for another few turns? It makes the game revolve around Heroes Doing Cool Shit, ideally in Big Climactic Battles.

Spoiler: Grand Strategy Thing (click to show/hide)

In a broader sense, when I think "Grand Strategy" I expect there to be a way to compete without optimizing everything for Military Spam. Research is inappropriate for what I want to accomplish, so I think what I want is for Happiness to represent how good you are at governing your people, and provide balance against the military aspect of the game.

Of course, the stated goal of the game is "Eventual Civil War," so it makes sense for everything to revolve around making a Military machine. I'm currently mulling a way for Happiness to play a role in attracting new Characters to the House, possibly as the result of a Random Event. Actually, just having lots of Random Events that reward High Happiness might be a good way to go about it...*mumbles incoherently to self*

Hm. I suppose treating Happiness as an alternative to a good military could work, if you can figure out how. Maybe economic or otherwise noncombat specialists could just be the peaceful equivalent to troops?

I guess another way to do that would be to look at the two extremes or archetypes. Obviously there's somebody who's sane or whatever, but that's boring; let's look at General Ripper and Accountant Fizzlesticks for a minute.

Currently, General Ripper can mess things up, but in exchange if he loses a region, not that he's going to, they'll convert easier, while if he conquers a region, which he obviously will, they'll refuse to be conquered for a few rounds and might even send some weak units for him to slap into submission.

Accountant Fizzlesticks can't really do anything, but if he gets conquered, which is likely, his regions will refuse to produce for the enemy for a few turns, while if he conquers someone else, which isn't going to happen, they'll convert much more rapidly.


So, obviously that's not a good decision. If you think in terms of what the options should be, it probably seems like General Ripper should be good at his military thing but have problems at home, whereas Accountant Fizzlesticks shouldn't have much military power but be able to do more with what he's got.

Or, the way I see it, General Ripper doesn't have much civilization going. He's got good troops, sure, but his people aren't really very well-fed or literate or able to do much other than gear up for war. Accountant Fizzlesticks' people, on the other hand, can't do much against gnolls or whatever but have a thriving culture and economy and such.

I assume there'd have to be something to that approach other than just getting more favor, not least of all because favor doesn't do you a lot of good if your head is on a pike right now, but that could be a component.

That's another thing I'm debating though, whether to drop the "Population = Coin income in Taxes" aspect, and make Coin income dependent on Markets you built and Resources you build on. Puts more emphasis on Specialists as well...

Uncertain of this, but I will say that whenever X = Y, I'm a bit dubious as to why both are in the game at all. The two don't appear to be entirely the same in this case, though, since pop is something you use to claim tiles with or keep on hand to actually do anything, while coin is expended to improve those tiles.

I think, given the direction of the game, I need to make Happiness have a more direct impact on Combat. I think I'm going to take my inspiration from the American Civil War, where General Ripper of the North has lots of farms, pops, and production capacity to field large armies, while Accountant Fizzlesticks of the South has surrounded himself with higher quality leadership and more specialists.

Basically, when I get around to my next rewrite I'm going to put more emphasis on Characters. I think I'm going to roll with a Skill Tree setup (which will necessitate a whole level-up thing) where each Character starts in a particular school (Command, Management, Spy/Saboteur, Hero) and progresses from there depending on what they do and how well they do it. Happiness will come into play in attracting Characters, and possibly reducing Character Maintenence costs if the former idea isn't good enough.

The more I ponder, the more I'm in favor of making Coin derive entirely from Structures, Specialists, and Tiles, rather than just Pops. Pops are already useful for a bunch of things, it's probably too much if they represent raw Income as well.

[Tsuchigumo550]

I was thinking about running a RtD game, but I don't have much in the way of systems...

Basically, you're exploring an island where all civilizations are almost gone. The three left are humans, dwarves, and kitsune, along with many, many ruins.

The civilizations left play into the story but play more into class creation: A small but highly customizeable system:

Race, which affects base stats.
Job, which affects weapon experience and skills, and
Weapon, a starting weapon that changes stats lightly to accommodate itself.

Humans are generally the quickest of the three, Kitsune are the most intelligent, and Dwarves are the most powerful.
Jobs are the basic warrior/rouge/mage, with mixed classes and specialties:
Wizard- casts magic.
Spellsword- Warrior that can cast limited magics
Warrior- Basic fighter.
Gladiator- Warrior with many stealthy and "dark" skills.
Rouge- Thief, picks locks, sneaky.
Sage- Darker magic, stealth, buff magics.

Weapons... will be edited into the post later

[Caerwyn]

I was thinking about running a RtD game, but I don't have much in the way of systems...

Basically, you're exploring an island where all civilizations are almost gone. The three left are humans, dwarves, and kitsune, along with many, many ruins.

The civilizations left play into the story but play more into class creation: A small but highly customizeable system:

Race, which affects base stats.
Job, which affects weapon experience and skills, and
Weapon, a starting weapon that changes stats lightly to accommodate itself.

Humans are generally the quickest of the three, Kitsune are the most intelligent, and Dwarves are the most powerful.
Jobs are the basic warrior/rouge/mage, with mixed classes and specialties:
Wizard- casts magic.
Spellsword- Warrior that can cast limited magics
Warrior- Basic fighter.
Gladiator- Warrior with many stealthy and "dark" skills.
Rouge- Thief, picks locks, sneaky.
Sage- Darker magic, stealth, buff magics.

Weapons... will be edited into the post later

I don't get what this "Kitsune" thing is. Isn't a kitsune some kind of fox person or something? Never really liked that, but hmm...It should be Gnomes, Dwarves and Dark Elves. Would be WAY cooler. You'd have your smart, technology/magically attuned Gnomes, badass, burly Dwarves, and quick, subtle assassin-ee Dark Elves.

[Dermonster]

I've been seeing a lot of kitsunes around lately.

*checks something* Mostly by tsuchi.

Makes one wonder.

[Caerwyn]

Edited. I don't need to get banned...

(Removed possible flaming material!)

[Tsuchigumo550]

I've been seeing a lot of kitsunes around lately.

*checks something* Mostly by tsuchi.

Makes one wonder.

So far, it's the only race I can come up with.

Seriously, though, I might take up that list posted. Gnomes sound interesting.
Throw anything at me. Because I'm not quite as far up on mythological races as I should be.

Also, don't worry much about pissing me off. Starting a flame war, that's something to watch for. Otherwise, I'm pretty docile.
I did just get an idea that was staring me in the face this entire time and should have come to mind a long time ago.

[Parsely]

I was considering starting an RTD based off of this. If you've ever played it, you've probably noticed the immense implications of the plot, and how unrealised it truly is as a throwaway SH'M'UP. The alien race in the game is utterly terrifying (at least to me). They're an unstoppable force of space-faring insects that swarm worlds and turn them into hives. It has a huge amount of potential story-wise, and I believe I can capitalise on that with my GM'ing skills, which I can only say are 'fairly good' if I'm going to leave ego out of it. You can check out my current project through my signature if you desire more tangible information.

The truly difficult part of this particular endeavour is the gameplay. There are so many directions it can potentially go, and I have no idea what to do about it from my position as a writer. If I had an assistant whom I could collaborate with and could whip up some cleanly simple, but unique gameplay then I could handle it from there. My plan is to use Defender (2002) as a sort of schematic: the conflict, the dire situation that the colonists have found themselves in, and their role in the fight against the Manti.

Since most people probably have no idea what the hell the original game is, I'm perfectly willing to go to great lengths to lay it out, point-by-point. A few walkthrough videos would likely help with any of the more intricate concepts. For the players themselves, they'll have to discover the mysteries on their own, through experience, which is where the RTD aspect comes in. Much like the other forum games, I'm going to be using the established universe as a setting. However, its so barren that I can comfortably expand it and even improve upon its core.

What do you think?

[Tiruin]

I've been seeing a lot of kitsunes around lately.

*checks something* Mostly by tsuchi.

Makes one wonder.

As a note, I'm playing as one due to my love for mythology. Not influenced by anything else.

And, why are there lots of minimalist RTDs currently? Now, I don't want to sound like I'm complaining (when I probably am), but what is seen in the multiple minimalist ones that make them alive? It's like, a branch of work from monk12, la, Spinal_Taper...and more.

Despite that, a welcoming cheer for all those new faces in the RTD board! Welcome!

@GUNIN: Flexible plotline.

Keep most things simple, use simple mechanics like the good ol' 1d6 for everything. Provide a general setting where complete newbies (like me) who do not know the source material, are able to settle in nicely.

Or you could complicate your life and make everything canon, pointing everything out. When we get it and act, watch as we all roll 1s and 6s. Joy!

All up to you though, but as it's being scientific, and in space, count me as a reservee.