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[Toaster]

I thought the first one went well, so let's get its own thread started.  If you have suggestions, post them here!

Link to Gametype thread where this started out.
Link to the Game Information spreadsheet

Game One
Game Two
Game Three
Game Four
Game Five
Game Six

[Toaster]

There are a few things I want to add now.  One, I need to go over the item list and clarify a few things to make it a bit clearer.  Two, all future games might have third parties.  Three, I want to address some things that game up during the game and work through them.

The third parties should be mostly a no-brainer, but I am going to reserve the right to change the rules for them.  Specifically, I may create unique items to give them at game start and possibly give them different rules for gaining items.

On classes: Did everyone feel they added significantly to the game?  Their effect is intended to be small, since (unlike most games) the player picks it instead of having it assigned.  The effects can always be rebalanced (and new ones added).  Eight out of thirteen picked random, though that could be for many reasons.

Items:  Any suggestions for new ones?  Hate old ones?  Know ones that need to change?

Self-targeting:  This was the question I was asked most- is it possible to self-target?  People wanted to use the all-good effects (treasure, enchant weapon/armor, blessing) on themselves.  I said no, since most roles don't allow this (doctors can't self protect, etc) and some items specifically allow self-targeting.  Do people think this should be changed?  Should I allow it on a few more specific items?

Public pool:  Should this concept be retained?  I'm not sure how much value it added relative to complexity it added.

On a related note, someone mentioned that killers should get some item of the person they killed.  I'm generally against this, as it's fairly pro-scum.  Would it be worth adding if non-mafiakill kills got a random item of the target?

Should players be allowed to share/trade items?  If so, all players or just scum (who know what each other has)?

Anything else that deserves mention?

[Mephansteras]

On self-targeting:

Since any player can get items that have beneficial effects, I think this makes sense. It's not horribly unbalanced, although it does make things a bit harder on the scum team since it reduces the advantage they get from knowing one another. However, if you do this I think you should avoid having any classes start with a self-targeting item.

One way to balance it better would be to have self-targetable items be one-use uncommons. So it's easy to get one-shot items that help other people, but harder to help yourself.

[Toaster]

Hmmm...

New uncommon item:
Scroll of Enhancement:  Target player gains your choice of Enchant Armor or Enchant Weapon.  You may target yourself with this item.

It's uncommon, so I gave the user the choice of effect plus the option to self-target.

Change Scroll of Blessing (uncommon) to allow self-targetting:
The target has one of the following effects applied at random: protection, Scroll of Treasure, Scroll of Enchant Armor, Scroll of Enchant Weapon, or immunity to redirects for the night.

It's less powerful on yourself, since redirect immunity is worthless and ?oTreasure might just cost you an action (and uncommon item) to gain a common.

Protection I believe should be kept non-self targeting.  Currently, Wand of Cantrips can self-target, and if you are randomized you can target yourself inadvertently.

One more item:  Should I just ditch the item limit?  I only rolled against it three times last game, and it only prevented an item gain once.  (The mage kept several scrolls via class ability.)

[Toaster]

I figured I'd bump this, since I'm about to launch RL2.

I'm going to nix the item limit from this run, since it didn't do much last game.  If it becomes a problem, I'll look at it again.  It'd really only be an issue with a huge game and lots of item-granting items.  I'll go over the item list again and I may add a few for fun.

If you have any game suggestions, now is the time to add them.

Last reminder- third parties are a possibility now.

[webadict]

Come up with a list of possible third parties. Is my list of third parties what you're using?

If so, give each Third Party a possible "extra" class(es), or something beneficial. Like, Serial Killers can have an Assassin class (kills are unstoppable) or even a Diplomat class (double voting but no kill [also works for Lyncher, kinda]), or a Martyr could have a Defender class, allowing them to guard another player. The beneficial aspect of extra items is so-so, as the randomness is difficult to balance.

I think third party classes would make them stand out and be more powerful while balancing out some aspects. You'll need to balance them, and it's a lot of work, but it seems fun.

[Toaster]

I'd probably use your list- I did for Dethy Deluxe.


Interesting idea on the bonus classes.  I had intended to give them specific special items, possibly unique to them (immune to theft/destruction [IE a kill-granting item for SKs, maybe something granting a shield to survivor, etc]) but extra class choice is interesting as well.

[Mr.Person]

Giving the third parties special items means that if/when somebody uses an item that tells them the item they're carrying/using, they get outed as a non-town. I don't think anything tells class names so far, although I could be wrong about that. Not necessarily bad, just something to keep in mind.

If you cut the item limit (which I agree it should, btw), then several items having to do with that limit will have to be changed or cut themselves. The only ones I can think of offhand are the Belt of Carrying and Bag of Holding. BoH is pretty easy, change it so when it generates, 0-4 other random items are generated too. As a night action, you can grab everything out of the bag. Note that if it's empty, you've just wasted your night! If you want this to be an artifact, Slash'EM has an artifact BoH by the name of "The Wallet of Perseus" I believe. If you want it to be weaker, just make it so only grab one random night out of the bag each night. Just an idea.

[webadict]

I'll come up with some Third Party classes, if you wish. Just later.

I feel trading should be allowed, though by doing as such, you must say you're trading such-and-such item in the thread. If a player posts a fake item (One they don't have), then they are punished in some way.

Also, killers shouldn't take items from the killee unless the Mafia gets one too, which is sorta unbalanced.

No self-targeting except on items with self-target listed. This is an obvious rule that shouldn't need to be asked. NO ACTIONS EVER SELF-TARGET UNLESS THEY SAY SO! EVER.

Meh to the item limit.

[Toaster]

I thought about it some more, and decided to stick with bonus/special items for third parties as I originally planned.  I'll see how it works this game and ponder on possible extra classes- feel free to throw ideas at me.

I'll skip trading this round.

Easy fix for items on death:

Scroll of Mugging:  You kill target player.  You gain one of their items at random.  (Rare)

I think I already made a few extra self-target items.


Also, new Bag of Holding:  Your items cannot be stolen, and your scrolls, wands, and rods are protected from destruction.

If it's too weak for a rare, I might put a active ability on it that lets you jump in it to hide- probably one shot.

[webadict]

Make it Artifact, throw the active on, make it multiple, but all of your items are destroyed if you're attacked. Otherwise, the action fails.

[Mr.Person]

Also, new Bag of Holding:  Your items cannot be stolen, and your scrolls, wands, and rods are protected from destruction.

This seems fine as a rare.

Scroll of Curse Weapon: If active, remove the effects of Scroll of Enchant Weapon. Otherwise, all of the target's kills have a 33% chance of failing.
Scroll of Curse Armor: If active, remove the effects of Scroll Enchant Armor. Otherwise, kills directed towards the target have a 33% of being unblockable.

[Toaster]

Web, yours almost sounds like a separate item.  Portable Hole?

Person, I'll add those.  Also, you forgot to join in the new game.

[Mr.Person]

Web, yours almost sounds like a separate item.  Portable Hole?

Person, I'll add those.  Also, you forgot to join in the new game.

Still can't really play at the moment. Sorry.

[Max White]

If your after a few classes, just to make things a little more fun.

Assassin: Kills have a 50% chance to work. Kills that pass this check can not be blocked or protected from.
So this is a great class for scum who want to kill a player who is proven town. They are going to have protects on them, and there is a chance for warriors to randomly be blocked, but the assassin has a 50% chance to slip past all that and slaughter the most well protected player in the game, so a higher chance than the warrior or ranger to bypass their relative obstacles. The problem is that because there kills only work 50% of the time, they are not worth using every night.

Artificer: Starts with a random uncommon in addition to a random common. If this class is chosen from random, starts with a single rare item.
So yea, only different from the bard if you happen to get it from random, but gives the small chance of a rare item d1.

Paladin:  Starts with a Wand of Inspect instead of a random common.
Because we have clerics playing the town doc, let's get a town cop in!