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[Vector]

People don't like effeminate? I can honestly say that I do not recall that expression ever being used in belittlement... Unless we are also including related terms, such as 'He cries like a girl', but something like 'He dresses effeminately' isn't something I have ever heard.

Lots and lots of older writing used effeminate.  Lots.

And yeah, the "like a girl" being negative is really annoying, too.

[Urist is dead tome]

Yea, take the word 'nugget' for example...

Or faggot, hootenanny, skedaddle, zounds and Nixonian.

The whole point is that it hasn't changed.  It's exactly the same word with exactly the same meaning used in a negative manner.

It may have been used to describe homosexuals who were viewed in a negative light but it is no longer applied to homosexuals when its said to say something is bad.

[fqllve]

Now here's my opinion:

The meanings of words change over time. You kinda have to except that sooner or later.

The whole point is that it hasn't changed.  It's exactly the same word with exactly the same meaning used in a negative manner.

That's not exactly the case. It doesn't necessarily mean homosexual when used negatively.

However, it is very likely derived from gay's change to mean homosexual.

[Vector]

It may have been used to describe homosexuals who were viewed in a negative light but it is no longer applied to homosexuals when its said to say something is bad.

How about if I call you gay?  Am I insulting you, or am I commenting on your sexuality?

Doesn't the fact that I can do both kind of imply that the two meanings are still inextricably tied together, at least for the present?

You know what probably didn't come to mind for you?  The word "happy."  That's the meaning that's gone now.

[Leafsnail]

It may have been used to describe homosexuals who were viewed in a negative light but it is no longer applied to homosexuals when its said to say something is bad.

No.  It's still very, very firmly attached to homosexuals in all uses of it.

When you say something's gay as generally bad, you're effectively saying that "gays = bad, so this word is clearly a valid synonym for bad".

That's not exactly the case. It doesn't necessarily mean homosexual when used negatively.

However, it is very likely derived from gay's change to mean homosexual.

And yet, the statement remains charged with ill will towards homosexuals.

[fqllve]

And yet, the statement remains charged with ill will towards homosexuals.

Agreed, specifically because of it's likely origins. It might be semantically neutral, but etymologically it's very offensive.

[Urist is dead tome]

It may have been used to describe homosexuals who were viewed in a negative light but it is no longer applied to homosexuals when its said to say something is bad.

No.  It's still very, very firmly attached to homosexuals in all uses of it.

When you say something's gay as generally bad, you're effectively saying that "gays = bad, so this word is clearly a valid synonym for bad".

That's not exactly the case. It doesn't necessarily mean homosexual when used negatively.

However, it is very likely derived from gay's change to mean homosexual.

And yet, the statement remains charged with ill will towards homosexuals.

I really don't see the issue here. Call a person gay as an insult, you're close minded, say it about an inanimate object, you're angry.

[Max White]

If Adam goes up to Eve and says 'Hey, I just got hit in the head by a falling papaya fruit, and it really hurt! Guess I can't help you to move your piano up a flight of stairs today!' and Eve replies 'Well that's gay!', Eve isn't trying to refer to homosexual people in any way, she is just showing displeasure. The word 'gay' in this context isn't really 'charged with ill will towards homosexuals', but despite this, their homosexual neighbour Matthew might still be offended from overhearing this statement, so in the name of diplomacy, it might be best if Eve holds her tongue.

[Urist is dead tome]

If Adam goes up to Eve and says 'Hey, I just got hit in the head by a falling papaya fruit, and it really hurt! Guess I can't help you to move your piano up a flight of stairs today!' and Eve replies 'Well that's gay!', Eve isn't trying to refer to homosexual people in any way, she is just showing displeasure. The word 'gay' in this context isn't really 'charged with ill will towards homosexuals', but despite this, their homosexual neighbour Matthew might still be offended from overhearing this statement, so in the name of diplomacy, it might be best if Eve holds her tongue.

This man is a wise man.

[scriver]

...You seriously call gays "guns" down there? And "gun ass"? I realise logic don't apply very well to insults and the like, but without emotional attachments that just sounds silly. Bössa is a kids word, for god's sake! 

Can't remember how it started, but no one hears "gun" unless it's a historian speaking or he's holding a gun in his hands. Everyone hears gay, without a second of doubt it could be gun. Gun is either pistol, riffel or gevær. Bøsse means gay in Danish. Silly swedes, guess you're having a calm moment? (Rolig = calm, not fun. Speak proper Scandinavian! :b)

What's that? I didn't quite get what you were saying, maybe you should take the potatoes out of your mouth and try again?
On an slightly more topic related note, however; I've been wondering about the term gay while reading this thread. Would you fellow bay12ians say it refers only to male homosexuals, or are lesbians included as well?

If Adam goes up to Eve and says 'Hey, I just got hit in the head by a falling papaya fruit, and it really hurt! Guess I can't help you to move your piano up a flight of stairs today!' and Eve replies 'Well that's gay!', Eve isn't trying to refer to homosexual people in any way, she is just showing displeasure. The word 'gay' in this context isn't really 'charged with ill will towards homosexuals', but despite this, their homosexual neighbour Matthew might still be offended from overhearing this statement, so in the name of diplomacy, it might be best if Eve holds her tongue.

It still implies that being gay is negative. Theres a direct link to homosexuality there.

[Max White]

While there may be in link in the history of the word, it still doesn't have ill intent.

[Leafsnail]

...Well, if we were to take a different example.

Imagine that everyone at school began using your name as a word for "generally bad".  Would you not interpret that as offensive?

Basically, using "gay" for "bad" means that you're strongly implying that homosexual = bad (and that therefore your sentence is valid).  The definitions aren't separate in any way at all.

[fqllve]

While there may be in link in the history of the word, it still doesn't have ill intent.

Intent isn't what's important in this situation. It's the link.

[Criptfeind]

On an slightly more topic related note, however; I've been wondering about the term gay while reading this thread. Would you fellow bay12ians say it refers only to male homosexuals, or are lesbians included as well?

I would say a bit of both. I would use it as a general term for homosexuality and as a specific term for a male homosexual.

Just as I might say man to indicate the whole of the human race and man to indicate a male.

[Vector]

Just like jokes that make light of rape have no ill intent towards people who are raped and yet perpetuate a culture in which rape is considered good grounds for humor and attached to moments of levity, calling something gay as a pejorative continues to attach the concept of negativity to homosexual individuals in general.

This isn't that hard, guys.  You can say "that's dumb" or "that's idiotic" or "that's ridiculous" or "that's risible" all you want.  Why do you need to use this particular emotionally charged word?

For context, I still flinch every time I hear it, and I'm not even gay.