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[blackmagechill]

Okay, I plan to be a computer programmer and all that stuff. I am about to enter highschool, and one of the top apps on the iphone charts was done by someone about six months older than I am (Who has a better school and education opportunity) and WASN'T a complete social pariah. I'm not either, and I'm taking tech classes, but the first two of them are probably learing how to use word and save shit as a .zip, and I know how to do that stuff. I couldn't get moved up or anything, so I'm stuck with those classes, wasting two years on stupid stuff before I learn like, java script and more old HTML. I NEED to get a head start. I was thinking about python, but that seemed pretty stupid without checking out other languages or getting advice from poeple older and smarter than I am. So...any suggestions on how I should start? My first choices were either java or python.

[lordnincompoop]

Those are good first choices. Go learn Java and Python.

If you have anything specific you want to do, research that a little more.

There's a Programming help thread in CP along with some challenges you can do too.

[GlyphGryph]

If you're interested in web based languages, I'm willing to take on a Ruby apprentice. Basically, it means you do free labour for me, and then I toss the labour out because its useless, tell you whats wrong and how to do it better next time, rinse and repeat until boom you are a programmer

Seriously though, if you're really interested I would be happy to offer some training once or twice a week in the evenings (if you're east coast) with homework assignments and everything. Doesn't have to be in Ruby really, and Ruby probably isn't the best just because it obfuscates a lot of lower level stuff, but its not terrible, and I know a few others too.

I'm only offering because I'm a social learner, and I've always struggled in the past as a programmer because people were always "figure it out on your own" and while I can (and did), just having someone to bounce ideas off of made it a whole lot easier. I know I wish someone had made me the same offer when I was younger.

[blackmagechill]

I'm midwest, and Ruby really doesn't seem to be my thing (my web-based choice for actual websites was .php, javascript would actually be for download-able development any way. I'd still bounce ideas though, provided you knew any java or Python. I want to get a good grip on those before I throw myself head first into the bottom of a three foot wading pool C++.

[Eagleon]

There are a lot of programmers that never touch C++, and for good reason. Pointers and memory management are tough at first, and mostly unnecessary with newer languages.

Java is fun, but probably not good unless you have a teacher and maybe a little bit of experience in another language. It's what I use, for what it's worth, and it's fast and flexible enough for just about anything as long as you remember a few design rules. It's also used by everything and the kitchen sink. You're basically guaranteed a job (or at least competition for one) for a while yet if you're good with Java, despite a push towards C#, and if you start now you can get a nice leg up on classes for college.

Python is the better choice for learning on your own. My first language was Freebasic - if you've played the roguelike Prospector, that's what it's coded in. It has its issues and bugs but it's the closest thing you'll get to a BASIC dialect that has the cooler features of C/C++ (pointers, bit-level operations on just about anything, overloading operators within objects) and support for modern libraries.

Since I'm on a bit of a low lately with my own projects, I'm willing to answer a few questions if you go the Java or Freebasic route. I can probably also answer questions about Python, but you'd have to handle syntax issues on your own. Your best bet is to use the thread lordnincompoop mentioned.

Oh, and if you think coding is always going to be easier than drawing, you might be disappointed It's worth doing either, though.

[GlyphGryph]

I'm midwest, and Ruby really doesn't seem to be my thing (my web-based choice for actual websites was .php, javascript would actually be for download-able development any way. I'd still bounce ideas though, provided you knew any java or Python. I want to get a good grip on those before I throw myself head first into the bottom of a three foot wading pool C++.

Well, as a web dev I'm pretty well versed in PHP and javascript too (although javascript is likely on its way out). Also, I have no idea what you being in the midwest has to do with not wanting to learn in Ruby. But I was under the impression that you were looking to learn to program, and ultimately the language doesn't matter so much compared to the goal of thinking like a programmer - something like Freebasic, as mentioned above, is fine for that. You have plenty of time to learn whatever job languages you need later on.

I'd just recommend Ruby because I'd be willing to teach it to you, and because its pretty quick to get up and running and see results from, so we could cover a lot of ground pretty quickly if you were up for it. If you're not interested, yeah - the thread mentioned multiple times is pretty pretty good.

[Virex]

Ruby also has the bonus of being functional (though python is functional too), which means you can do some things with it that would be a royal pain in the *$$ in languages like C or Java. It's also a paradigm that's becoming more and more important (outside academic research as well), while the main advantage of C/C++ (manual memory management) is dropping in popularity everywhere except for games development and microprocessor programming.

[Levi]

Ruby is also great if you have a lot of medium sized data processing type projects.  I do a lot of data analysis for researchers and ruby makes it ridiculously easy compared to other languages.  It might not be ideal for large applications, but for quick throwaway code its fantastic.

[blackmagechill]

So, since people know ruby and I don't know how date free basic is (the only basic languages I've heard of lately were visual basic and BASIC.) I guess I'll start with that. I don't expect to have it down within the next year or so, and I think at school we end up learning java, HTML, bits of php and maybe a little of one of the C languages (possibly C# or C) I guess Ruby would be my best bet before I start classes.

[GlyphGryph]

If you want to do ruby, send me an pm, I'll hook you up with some resources I've got. Same for php. If you're interested in the tutoring/apprenticeship thing, send me some sort of instant messenger contact for you.

What operating system do you have, btw?

Anyways, you shouldn't really take more than a week to learn, like, the entirety of basic html. It's basically just a couple dozen markup elements with a couple dozen properties (most of which you shouldn't care about because they are deprecated), plus form stuff which is slightly more complicated.

[Fayrik]

(although javascript is likely on its way out)

Wait what?
Why is Javascript "on it's way out"?

Also, stay away from Visual Basic! I think this forum has a few topics that have gone over it already, but you'll only be putting yourself back by learning it.
Personally, from what you say you're going to learn "at school", I'd jump in on Java and "C# or C". I realise it's not the easiest place to start, but at least then you can actually start writing things from the word go, rather than having to wait until you're formally introduced to them before your programs can do X or Y. That, coupled with the fact that every little bit that you can pick up will only go to help you when you're then learning about them formally.

[blackmagechill]

I flipped through the highschool hand book. The most "advanced" thing we're going to be doing is fucking around with flash. So, any ideas about what I should to to fight my mediocre educational promises?

[GlyphGryph]

Bluh, just nevermind that bit. I don't even know why I said it. I think I may have crossed wires with actionscript or something. And even then its probably a stupid thing to say, as I'm sure Flash will still have some sort of place for a while yet. Why I would ever confuse the two can be left as an exercise to the imagination. Attribute it to stupidity.

Ninjad:
And since he mentioned flash stuff, now its relevant again!

[blackmagechill]

So, If I could get some ruby resources that'd be nice, and I guess I'll start there and then move around to javascript or python because Python seems approachable IF you know another language.

[Levi]

So, If I could get some ruby resources that'd be nice, and I guess I'll start there and then move around to javascript or python because Python seems approachable IF you know another language.

This is the classic ruby book:  http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/
Or if you prefer learning while high then this one:  http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/