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[Michael]

At one point they are talking about the fate of abandoned fortresses.  One thing that struck me is that their discussion assumed that the fortress was abandoned because it was fundamentally non-viable for whatever reason.

It's quite possible, even likely, that a human player may hit the "Abandon" button even when the fortress is okay, so far as the dwarves' immediate needs are concerned.  For example, he might be building a megaconstruction or elaborate plumbing scheme, discover some irreversible mistake or interfering map feature, and decide to try again on a blank slate.  In such a case, the individual dwarves should logically think "We know of no enemies in the fort; the plump helmet farms are fine; the still is working; each of us has a furnished and smooth room; let's just stay here."

[drvoke]

Hill Dwarves!  Now my ASCII art reward/story makes sense!  That's pretty exciting stuff!

I dunno if it's kosher to post our story rewards here, but in case anyone is interested:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Odroz leaned back against the hay as his team of capybaras pulled his
wagon back up the winding trail to the dwarf fortress.  The hill
dwarves were such revolting creatures, thought Odroz.  They lived out
their lives in daylight -- an experience which would make any
gentlemanly dwarf sick.  Sunlight to Odroz was just an occupational
hazard, as he was assigned to look after the hill people and collect
their taxes of course.

A sudden explosion and the wagon was blown apart.  Odroz collected
himself.  A pit trap.  Shapes rose up from the hills around him.  He
reached for his knife.

“A pit trap,” scoffed Odroz.  “I am now witness to the height of hill
dwarf ingenuity.”

Make of it what you will.

I also want to add that I now understand a bit better why people are so keen on regular releases.  I didn't start playing DF until around Feb/March of last year, so I wasn't around for the 19 months of no releases.  I would find that absolutely shocking if it happened now.

[Pita]

When the conversation mentions migrants and refugees (and a sudden start) I thought it would actually be an interesting embark scenario once those are in. You would have to somehow be able to select wandering populations to be your starting party.. (a precusor to this would be being able to embark with a party from a particular site rather than an entire civilization I suppose too).

Not sure how I feel about being able to take control of a dwarf to play a game in a fortress mode... Feels like it's crossing the line of dwarf-autonomy, and more than that I don't think that mode really needs mini-games. Seems more like adventure mode stuff.

[Cruxador]

Not sure how I feel about being able to take control of a dwarf to play a game in a fortress mode... Feels like it's crossing the line of dwarf-autonomy, and more than that I don't think that mode really needs mini-games. Seems more like adventure mode stuff.

It's not like it's mandatory. Just an option, in case you feel like it.

[monk12]

Not sure how I feel about being able to take control of a dwarf to play a game in a fortress mode... Feels like it's crossing the line of dwarf-autonomy, and more than that I don't think that mode really needs mini-games. Seems more like adventure mode stuff.

It's not like it's mandatory. Just an option, in case you feel like it.

Yeah, I can live with it just being a fun little thing you might do every once in a while- not so much if I need to play Hold'm with the Human Diplomat to convince him to lift the siege. Not that that wouldn't be a cool thing for my baron to do on his own initiative, mind you.

[ahonek]

Yeah, I am thinking about it in terms of the possession spell in Dungeon Keeper. You don't have to use it, and I'm sure some people have never used it, but every now and then if you want to run an imp around your dungeon and carve hallways in exactly the order you want the tiles removed, you are able to.

[nil]

Everything about hill dwarves and the removal of artificial barriers between your fortress and the outside world sounds awesome.  That said, I was a little hesitant during the treatment of inn games.  It's not that it wouldn't be cool to have games that could be played and won in adventure and fortress mode via skill and strategy, I just think there's a danger of putting in too much programing time into too little benefit.  Designing the game, designing the interface, designing opponent AI--sounds like a lot of work for something that would be a barely consequential little diversion in most fortresses and adventures.  Sticking to games that depend on chance or skillchecks would be at least half as awesome and ten times easier.

Dwarves should play darts in the tavern, and this should actually train throwing. (my apologies if this actually comes up later in the talk...I am in the middle of it right now)

On the other hand, atomfullerene is really on to something here, imo.  Tavern activities could be a great opportunity to give dwarves the ability to practice a few of the secondary, hard-to-train skills like observer, teacher, student, leader, throwing, maybe even kicking and biting (goblinball and plump helmet eating contests?).

[monk12]

Everything about hill dwarves and the removal of artificial barriers between your fortress and the outside world sounds awesome.  That said, I was a little hesitant during the treatment of inn games.  It's not that it wouldn't be cool to have games that could be played and won in adventure and fortress mode via skill and strategy, I just think there's a danger of putting in too much programing time into too little benefit.  Designing the game, designing the interface, designing opponent AI--sounds like a lot of work for something that would be a barely consequential little diversion in most fortresses and adventures.  Sticking to games that depend on chance or skillchecks would be at least half as awesome and ten times easier.

Dwarves should play darts in the tavern, and this should actually train throwing. (my apologies if this actually comes up later in the talk...I am in the middle of it right now)

On the other hand, atomfullerene is really on to something here, imo.  Tavern activities could be a great opportunity to give dwarves the ability to practice a few of the secondary, hard-to-train skills like observer, teacher, student, leader, throwing, maybe even kicking and biting (goblinball and plump helmet eating contests?).

I could see something where parties have skill challenge games as either a random impulsive activity or more of an organized fair/festival thing. Archery contests, wrestling matches, races, and sports would be traditional examples common to most cultures (Dwarven Olympics, anyone?) with maybe some procedurally generated competitions based on culture. Eating contests probably fall in there, along with swimming, storytelling, singing, and so forth. Participants train appropriate skills in small amounts, winners get big happy thoughts, everyone enjoys playing and maybe the one sore loser is unhappy his rival beat him. There might even be Serious Business recreational activities sponsored by the fortress (ie player) or by individual nobles who like the activity, and these special ones might attract competitors from surrounding areas. Jousting tournaments spring to mind, or get a whole Robin Hood thing going on where people you might not normally let into the fort get a free pass if they arrive as competitors.

/ramble

[Jiri Petru]

This was definitely one of the best DF talks so far. Full of new information, and cleverly done to cover different kinds of issues - both long term goals, short term goals and some reflection on the past, and even some insight about Toady's design approach (the AI stuff). It was a very good mix, and I think it would be worth it to go for something similar in the future.

Inns and taverns were enlightening and it was exciting hearing about something that's coming in the near future as opposed to huge but distant goals.

[Lac]

I really enjoyed this DF talk; thank you!

I find it quite hard to listen intently for so long; my personal strategy is to play Spider Solitare whilst listening; it seems to keep the bits of my brain that aren't involved in listening occupied without getting too distracted and zoning out for whole sections.  But I still love the format, as I feel Toady commits to more detail (no, detail is the wrong word; possibilities and example intricacies) than he would in writing plus it forces him to think ahead and keep a complete picture in mind (although its obvious that he and Threetoe must spend long sessions talking stuff through).

I was a bit confused between muddle of random versus procedurally generated.  (Ignoring the scientific definition of random against the programming one which I think Toady nearly sidetracked into).  I thought procedurally generated is where you try for a more a coherent/consistent look&feel by specifying rules (probably with some randomisation involved) between placement of new components against existing/already placed ones.  Whereas random is just 'we can use one of the following from this list with these probabilities' with little thought to how the entire scene is building up (except when setting the probabilities).  Although just typing this I can see there's a grey area in the middle.  Procedurally generated (my definition) is what I would expect from Toady!

Keep up the good work.


PS  I wonder how long it will be before you can stick the audio and Malloc's transcription into an app and have it sync the two together with read-along highlighting and audio bookmarks!  sigh.

[Jeoshua]

"Drink Quality is deffinitely going in"

Thank god.

I can't wait for my Dwarves to be sipping on masterwork booze.  I wonder if artifact booze will ever get made.

Sure, you couldn't drink it, but it's so Dwarfy

FIREWATER, THE LEGENDARY BOOZE!

This booze is made of Sunshine.  It is mixed with Dwarven Wine, Kaluha, and Diorite.  The booze menaces with spikes of adamantium. 

[Lac]

The booze menaces with spikes of adamantium.

Dwarves ought to have ethics against spiking drinks!

[Rose]

I, for one, look forward to setting up a fortress on a busy highway and running a booming roadside inn.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I, for one, look forward to setting up a fortress on a busy highway and robbing travelers blind.

So do I.

[monk12]

The booze menaces with spikes of adamantium.

Dwarves ought to have ethics against spiking drinks!

Knowing dwarves, they probably have ethics against NOT spiking their drinks.

"Orange juice, eh? What's in it?"
"Er... orange juice. That's it."
"...you sick bastard."