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[Levi]

I wait for the transcripts myself so that I can read them while slacking off at work. 

[Kadzar]

I like the idea of booze qualities. I wonder, would that mean we could have artifact beer?

I also like the idea of Hill Dwarves. It would be nice to be able to have a large military without having hundreds of dwarves pathing through your fortress. With them surrounding your fortress, it would be like you have your own town or city and the fortress can be the citadel. It might be nice if the hill dwarves could come onto your map sometimes to help with building projects, or any other general unskilled labor. Although, since they're probably not technically under your control, you'd have to pay them, or at least lower their taxes. Then you could fill up your citadel with just your cadre of skilled elite dwarves.

[Gatleos]

Also, I found out that my pronunciation of recipe was completely wrong.

What was your pronunciation, res-EEP?

[Knight Otu]

What was your pronunciation, res-EEP?

More like res-EIP; Rhymes with pipe, stripe, ripe...

[mallocks]

Until you pointed that out Knight Otu I'd never really thought about it, but I can't think of another word in the English language ending 'ipe' that has it pronounced the same way as in 'recipe'. Strange language, English.

Edit: Also just to let folks know, the transcript will be up in much better time than last time. You can probably expect it within a few days.

[Makigall]

I like DFTalks.  They're not really the crunchy bits of information available elsewhere, but its nice to hear Toady talking about what he'd like for his game.  And I think some of that stuff comes out through DFTalk and I don't think it would be likely to be discussed elsewhere.  Like in 11 there was talk about the parties and how they're currently kind of lame, I don't think some of the details discussed would have come up just through posting on the forums.

Just my thoughts on the matter.  You guys do well with these and they're entertaining and all of this is free.  Thank you for all the effort that goes into the fun experience that is Dwarf Fortress.

[Capntastic]

2. Emulate Capn' and me and be a productive member of the community, along with many others here.

To be fair, Kohaku's suggestion forum threads are probably the most tolerable ones there.  I can understand the direction where they're coming from- DF Talk is more about the community and being a fireside chat, than it is about being a bullet listed development keynote.  But still, they can take it or leave it, and if they were aiming for a legit criticism, they are free to do so if they work on expressing themselves in a slightly less sulky manner.

Edit:  Although, on second reading, Kohaku's exasperated sigh pretty much ignores that there is in fact a Future of the Fortress thread that does have the sort of stuff he's looking for.  It's cool that there's both.

[NW_Kohaku]

Welp, you can't please everybody!  Did we not ask your question? 

How should I know if you asked my question?  I've given up on downloading and listening to these, and there is no transcript up yet. 

Further, what question?  I've specifically tried using every method of trying to get into contact with Toady except DF Talk's email specifically because I have so much trouble using DF Talk.  If you are routing questions into DF Talk that you find elsewhere, that's only more reason to complain about how much focus there is on DF Talk.  I ask questions in non-DF Talk channels specifically to get non-DF Talk replies.

Also, I would like to remind you his game is FREE. 

And what, pray tell, does this have to do with anything?  I like DF.  I like the direction the game is going in, and I'm very excited by some of its upcoming updates. 

I just don't like DFTalk. 

I find it very hard to listen to or read, and would rather Toady not use this as the sole means we have of asking many questions, especially relating to suggestions. 

I have every right to say I don't like DF Talk, especially as I listed reasons why I don't like DF Talk, and have asked for alternatives to DF Talk to be used for the same purpose.  This is a "Feedback" thread, and there is nothing in this thread saying that all feedback MUST be positive.  There have been other non-positive feedback posts,  big or small, but these have hardly been decrying that anyone would quit playing DF because they didn't like DF Talk. 

Which brings us to this...

You have two good choices here: 

1. Go bug off, shut up, and don't listen.
2. Emulate Capn' and me and be a productive member of the community, along with many others here.

Oh, and what you're doing right now?  It's NOT number 2.

OK, I think the best way of responding to this is, "How dare you?"

Either you are saying that any sort of negative comment towards DF Talk is a completely community-destroying action (nevermind how negative your own comments are right now), or else you are simply trying to refute a complaint levied against DF Talk by saying that anybody who doesn't "Contribute as much" to the community has no right to speak up... and the only contributions that count are the ones that you make with some sort of special "elite club" arrangement you have with Toady.

Apparently, mods and suggestions aren't contributions.  After all, I've done both, but I haven't apparently contributed, so those clearly don't count.

Can we only "contribute" by shouting encouragement and waiting for Rainseeker, gatekeeper to Toady, to grace us with his own "contributions"?  How, pray tell, are we supposed to "contribute" by negotiating special arrangements to get ourselves into elite clubs where we can talk down on other members of the community for not having a special seat at the table when our only method of asking such things is through an email account that apparently just goes to DF Talk, anyway?

Or is that entirely the point?

Edit:  Although, on second reading, Kohaku's exasperated sigh pretty much ignores that there is in fact a Future of the Fortress thread that does have the sort of stuff he's looking for.  It's cool that there's both.

This would be more convincing an argument if it weren't for this sort of response:

NW_Kohaku and his question spam are back.

And these aren't questions, they are veiled suggestions.

Suggestions or references to suggestions aren't allowed in FotF, functionally.  Whenever someone tries, they are told that they have to use DF Talk, instead.  Which is exactly the problem - If I have a question about what sort of suggestions Toady is even looking for, what fits into his vision of the game or not, and where I can focus the most effort to contribute, I am told to go to the one form of communication with Toady I can't use.

In fact, by Capntastic's own words, "DF Talk is more about the community and being a fireside chat, than it is about being a bullet listed development keynote."  It's not really even meant to handle things like suggestions, either.

I've spent quite a bit of time attempting to contribute to this game - that IF thread's main proposal is 58 pages in word and 255506 characters long, and that doesn't include any of the replies or the previous thread, or any of the other suggestions, that's just the reformatted proposal.

Before I go making something that lengthy again, I just want to ask to get some kind of clue as to what sort of suggestions he's even open to, and where he would want community energy put, or what kinds of community projects he would accept, but it doesn't seem to matter where I'm asking, I'm always asking in the wrong place, and I'm not really being "a productive member of the community".

[Dante]

I wait for the transcripts myself so that I can read them while slacking off at work. 

Me too, usually, but I need to find out about inns. 

[ahonek]

Wow. I guess it's really hard to listen to an audio file, eh?

[mallocks]

Some people are not native English speakers, and find it immeasurably easier to understand via reading rather than via listening ahonek.

[Capntastic]

The suggestion forum is where suggestions go.  FoTF is where you discuss the current development developments.  DF Talk email is where you email more general questions about the current DF Talk topics, ie, 'how will world gen battle work?'  Toady also answers emails when he gets a chance.  They're all methods he uses to communicate with the fanbase, and each of them fill a different niche, with some overlap.

I don't see why Toady needs to respond to every person's questions individually, when he has an active fanbase of thousands.  DF talk is not the 'sole means' of asking questions, it's just a more casual, general one.  You also need to realize that every person that has had contact with DF has a million ideas about how things should go down, and 'sneak-suggestion' questions are probably the worst thing to for Toady to discuss, with regards to real hard data, because he's forced to say "no that's not what i am going to do" or explain how he might go about doing something similar in a few years when he finally gets around to it, etc.

I'll point out that Rainseeker was out of line to say you're not a contributing member of the community- he was misinformed. But you can't deny that you're acting pretty petulant here, concerning something we've expended a bit of time and effort to produce, and pretty much crying that we halt production on something a lot of people enjoy simply because you don't like it.  I don't blame him for getting defensive, especially since it's something I've done in the past.  So yeah.  People should just calm down.

[Sunday]

The suggestion forum is where suggestions go.  FoTF is where you discuss the current development developments.  DF Talk email is where you email more general questions about the current DF Talk topics, ie, 'how will world gen battle work?'  Toady also answers emails when he gets a chance.  They're all methods he uses to communicate with the fanbase, and each of them fill a different niche, with some overlap.

I don't see why Toady needs to respond to every person's questions individually, when he has an active fanbase of thousands.  DF talk is not the 'sole means' of asking questions, it's just a more casual, general one.  You also need to realize that every person that has had contact with DF has a million ideas about how things should go down, and 'sneak-suggestion' questions are probably the worst thing to for Toady to discuss, with regards to real hard data, because he's forced to say "no that's not what i am going to do" or explain how he might go about doing something similar in a few years when he finally gets around to it, etc.

I'll point out that Rainseeker was out of line to say you're not a contributing member of the community- he was misinformed. But you can't deny that you're acting pretty petulant here, concerning something we've expended a bit of time and effort to produce, and pretty much crying that we halt production on something a lot of people enjoy simply because you don't like it.  I don't blame him for getting defensive, especially since it's something I've done in the past.  So yeah.  People should just calm down.

Cheers to that.

Anyway, haven't listened to this talk yet, but I'm pretty psyched about inns. More interactions with the outside world (besides the siege/ambush/thief trifecta, and merchants/ambassadors) makes me super happy.

[Gatleos]

You have two good choices here: 

1. Go bug off, shut up, and don't listen.
2. Emulate Capn' and me and be a productive member of the community, along with many others here.

Oh, and what you're doing right now?  It's NOT number 2.

OK, I think the best way of responding to this is, "How dare you?"

I don't think he meant, "Start contributing to the community". He meant, "Stop being an insufferable prick about it, Kohaku".

You made one good point, though:

Suggestions or references to suggestions aren't allowed in FotF, functionally.  Whenever someone tries, they are told that they have to use DF Talk, instead.  Which is exactly the problem - If I have a question about what sort of suggestions Toady is even looking for, what fits into his vision of the game or not, and where I can focus the most effort to contribute, I am told to go to the one form of communication with Toady I can't use.

Right now we have a forum for gameplay suggestions, but the only way for Toady to give feedback to those suggestions is to post in each thread individually. We need a way to know what kinds of suggestions Toady is open to and which ones he's considering, and a way to direct community effort toward something useful. Because right now community suggestions are a complete shot in the dark.

[Dante]

Some people are not native English speakers, and find it immeasurably easier to understand via reading rather than via listening ahonek.

For me, it's because my netbook speaker puts an annoying buzz on everything, and I tend to zone out on any stutters or trailing-offs, which don't appear in the transcript.

_{I do load em up and skip to the end for any singing though.}