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[CoughDrop]

Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values.

I'm going to question whether or not societies can function properly without religion while instead focusing on other, more adaptable, cultural attributes for values.

[Duke 2.0]

 Such as? And mind you these would have to arise in small communities that are likely not very advanced technologically, as culture is meant to allow these communities to grow and develop.

[fqllve]

Religion isn't any less adaptable than other cultural systems anyway. Religion as practiced in the early twentieth century is not the same as religion practiced now. Sure, sometimes it resists change (Aristotellian cosmology I'm looking at you) but hell, there are scores of people who insist that "alot is stupid and dumb and not a word" and if that isn't resistance to change I dunno what is.

[Leafsnail]

It is a word.  Not sure how often you have to talk about the small town in west India, but...

[CoughDrop]

Such as? And mind you these would have to arise in small communities that are likely not very advanced technologically, as culture is meant to allow these communities to grow and develop.

The cultural trends that societies already make. I didn't say they would go without culture...?

Religion isn't any less adaptable than other cultural systems anyway. Religion as practiced in the early twentieth century is not the same as religion practiced now. Sure, sometimes it resists change (Aristotellian cosmology I'm looking at you) but hell, there are scores of people who insist that "alot is stupid and dumb and not a word" and if that isn't resistance to change I dunno what is.

Yes, it does depend on the religion and how advanced the people we would be surveying are. I don't even want societies without religion, I just want them to not hold on to some 2000 year old book. I want them to be much more open to change. I guess it seems this is already happening, but there are quite a lot (at least in my area of the world) that still hold onto values that mean nil in today's world. (at least we don't have parents that kill their children for becoming apostates... in the US)

[Sowelu]

I am curious if there's any examples of a remotely-major culture developing with no religion.

I mean Buddhism is the closest there, probably...  It's religion except not quite religion.  Does it count or not?  I have no damn clue.  Any cultures that are LESS religious than Buddhism?

[Lord Shonus]

To my knowledge, the only cultures that had no religion at all have been those that rejected and attempted to destroy all existing religions, although in most of those cases one could argue that those merely replaced traditional religions with veneration of the State, Party, or leader.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Buddhism itself derived from brahminical hinduism, so we can't really say it developed without religion... and yes, it is religion, just not a specifically theistic one

[Criptfeind]

Buddhism is a religion. It is not even a gray area.

[fqllve]

I'm going to take this opportunity to pimp Julian Jayne's The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.

It's mostly, as the title suggests, about how consciousness developed. But it has some interesting theories about the origin of religion as well. Jaynes posits that the man of the Illiad literally hallucinated his gods speaking to him, because he was unable to provide his own conscious direction. So basically religion developed as a precursor to consciousness.

It's a little out there, but the science is very prescient and it's definitely an interesting read.

Yes, it does depend on the religion and how advanced the people we would be surveying are. I don't even want societies without religion, I just want them to not hold on to some 2000 year old book. I want them to be much more open to change. I guess it seems this is already happening, but there are quite a lot (at least in my area of the world) that still hold onto values that mean nil in today's world. (at least we don't have parents that kill their children for becoming apostates... in the US)

Getting people to embrace change is a problem in all of society, not just religion. People are just afraid of it.

[Criptfeind]

Yeah. Cause no matter how shitty stuff might be now.

At least a majority of us are alive.

[Ghills]

I am curious if there's any examples of a remotely-major culture developing with no religion.

I mean Buddhism is the closest there, probably...  It's religion except not quite religion.  Does it count or not?  I have no damn clue.  Any cultures that are LESS religious than Buddhism?

Buddhism is in fact a religion.   People in some areas of the world tend to not see it as a religion because it was imported as part of a cultural trend, but it has all the same characteristics as other major religions and has played very much the same role as major religions in the areas it's prominent in.  It is definitely not 'not quite religion'.

There are no cultures I am aware of that have no system of moral beliefs. There are cultures that don't obviously have religious trappings, or that organize their moral beliefs around a structure not traditionally considered religious.

[Vector]

The union of the mathematician with the poet, fervor with measure, passion with correctness, this surely is the ideal.

I think this applies, if not directly.

[fqllve]

Yeah, I think it does too.

I think we could make an awesome thread just out of these quotes.

[ECrownofFire]

We should have a thread where we argue just using famous quotes