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Author Topic: Greeks, Egyptians, Christians, Muslims, and others when it comes to Science  (Read 19638 times)

Askot Bokbondeler

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i think science is a pretty cool guy

CoughDrop

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 inb4 We are all scientists.
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"It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think yours is the only path."

Muz

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I don't think that modern religion and science have much bearing on each other at all.  Historically sure, but these days nope.  Modern religion has to deal with the fallout from new scientific advancements, because they bring up new moral questions that had never come up before, and they don't always deal with it very well very fast, but religion itself is not about science.

Hang around the modern Muslim countries a bit. Most of them view science very highly :P (Not the backwards extremist ones that lynch gays and are used as anti-Middle Eastern propaganda)

I know a lot of people who actively teach children that Allah values knowledge more than wealth. Many Muslim country leaders try to use the policy to motivate rural people to get into science and modernize the countries. Religion is indeed a very powerful motivator, I know quite a few people who become scientists mainly because it gives them piety points.

Theologically, Islam puts every human as a Khalifa (representative) on earth, and their role is to protect the world, and become leaders. The Islamic version of the Adam and Eve story is that Adam was created to expose Satan as a rebel. Adam was given knowledge of the Earth, Satan refused to bow in respect to him, and was kicked out. This put knowledge as the highest pillar of respect in Islam (and that includes scientific knowledge, not just theological). Knowledge was what makes humanity superior to animals, angels, and devils.

It's questionable how much religion factors in, but in a modern Muslim world, science garners a lot of respect.
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Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

Sowelu

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inb4 We are all scientists.

No john, you ARE the scientists
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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

CoughDrop

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inb4 We are all scientists.

No john, you ARE the scientists

Err, my name is John.
You must be psychic.
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"It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think yours is the only path."

Nikov

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Anything that happens here can be claimed as Nikov's fault, before he threw in his 2 cents everyone who posted here was voteing for this to be locked before anything got started.

So what's the verdict?
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.

Lord Shonus

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I don't think that modern religion and science have much bearing on each other at all.  Historically sure, but these days nope.  Modern religion has to deal with the fallout from new scientific advancements, because they bring up new moral questions that had never come up before, and they don't always deal with it very well very fast, but religion itself is not about science.

Hang around the modern Muslim countries a bit. Most of them view science very highly :P (Not the backwards extremist ones that lynch gays and are used as anti-Middle Eastern propaganda)

I know a lot of people who actively teach children that Allah values knowledge more than wealth. Many Muslim country leaders try to use the policy to motivate rural people to get into science and modernize the countries. Religion is indeed a very powerful motivator, I know quite a few people who become scientists mainly because it gives them piety points.

Theologically, Islam puts every human as a Khalifa (representative) on earth, and their role is to protect the world, and become leaders. The Islamic version of the Adam and Eve story is that Adam was created to expose Satan as a rebel. Adam was given knowledge of the Earth, Satan refused to bow in respect to him, and was kicked out. This put knowledge as the highest pillar of respect in Islam (and that includes scientific knowledge, not just theological). Knowledge was what makes humanity superior to animals, angels, and devils.

It's questionable how much religion factors in, but in a modern Muslim world, science garners a lot of respect.

Note that, with very little interpretation, it can be shown that the Koran talks about the Big Bang and quite a lot of other theories. This denies evolution, but acknowledges the validity of the theory. (I do not have the familiarity with the Koran to do this. It was shown to me by a Muslim cleric i was working with, and it made a lot of sense, but I can't reproduce it.) 

With regards to the original thread subject, the only time in the history of Christendom where scientific progress was largely stalled had little to do with religion, and almost everything to do with the constant warfare caused by the power vacuum left by the collapsing Romans. Some individual theories have come under fire through the ages, of course, but that's quite true of any power centre, including secular or even violently atheistic ones. As for superstition and mysticism, not only was that rarely part of Church doctrine, for much of the time, it was actively opposed by the church. If, for example, you tried to denounce a neighbor to the Spanish Inquisition for witchcraft, YOU would be thrown in jail for fearmongering.
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On Giant In the Playground and Something Awful I am Gnoman.
Man, ninja'd by a potentially inebriated Lord Shonus. I was gonna say to burn it.

Askot Bokbondeler

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Anything that happens here can be claimed as Nikov's fault, before he threw in his 2 cents everyone who posted here was voteing for this to be locked before anything got started.

So what's the verdict?

eh, people who dislike religious discussion should keep out of threads specifically created for religious discussion. the bunch of people that popped up on the first pages claiming that this thread should be locked and activelly trying to change the subject were effectively derailing the thread and could legitimately be accused of trolling

Criptfeind

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could legitimately be accused of trolling

Chah. Your one to talk.

Anything that happens here can be claimed as Nikov's fault, before he threw in his 2 cents everyone who posted here was voteing for this to be locked before anything got started.

So what's the verdict?

It was honestly not as bad as I thought it was going to be. There was some rough ground, but no one got banned or whatever. There may even have been some increased understanding and personal growth, which is always worth it.
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Willfor

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eh, people who dislike religious discussion should keep out of threads specifically created for religious discussion. the bunch of people that popped up on the first pages claiming that this thread should be locked and activelly trying to change the subject were effectively derailing the thread and could legitimately be accused of trolling
If derailing a thread equates to trolling than this entire board is so full of trolls that we should just be shut down. If that's the definition than we've got more trolls than 4chan.

This topic was trolled so hard that the creator had to make a new thread for the original topic, and boy was he angry about it. There was so much fire and brimstone that everyone involved was banned for a month like they legitimately should have been as per your definitions.

I had a lot of fun making the second part of this post, don't ruin it by taking it seriously, please.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 10:40:13 am by Willfor »
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In the wells of livestock vans with shells and garden sands /
Iron mixed with oxygen as per the laws of chemistry and chance /
A shape was roughly human, it was only roughly human /
Apparition eyes / Apparition eyes / Knock, apparition, knock / Eyes, apparition eyes /

Askot Bokbondeler

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could legitimately be accused of trolling

Chah. Your one to talk.
please explain

eh, people who dislike religious discussion should keep out of threads specifically created for religious discussion. the bunch of people that popped up on the first pages claiming that this thread should be locked and activelly trying to change the subject were effectively derailing the thread and could legitimately be accused of trolling
If derailing a thread equates to trolling than this entire board is so full of trolls that we should just be shut down. If that's the definition than we've got more trolls than 4chan.
i think doing it with bad intentions equals to trolling. i don't people were trolling, just that they were using, eh, trollish methods

Criptfeind

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please explain

The only one who has come close to trolling here was your I win comment. That is almost straight up trolling.

Derailing is not trolling in almost all cases. And, might I add, that not only were those comments not derailing (they were very important to the subject)  but they were made in the greatest hope of saving everyone.

Do you know why there are no other religious discussion threads being talked in now?

Cause every last one has ended in Toady swooping in, muting people, and locking the thread.
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Nikov

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If people cannot discuss religion in any community, it is because they resort too quickly to generalizations and ad hominem attacks. Or at least, that's the impression I get about some people.

See what I did there?

Dammit guys, now you're going to get me in trouble for trolling. Go back to talking about religion.

Does anyone else have quotations from historical figures (not Bill Maher) they'd like to share?
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.

Criptfeind

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Dammit guys, now you're going to get me in trouble for trolling. Go back to talking about religion.

Hey, man. Not our fault, your very existence trolls large sections of bay12.
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Nikov

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Dammit guys, now you're going to get me in trouble for trolling. Go back to talking about religion.

Hey, man. Not our fault, your very existence trolls large sections of bay12.

There's a reason I don't go to the LCS forum. Ever.
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.
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