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[Johnfalcon99977]

I didn't do anything to paint the Gnomes evil. Their just making my people pissy at them.

And if your right Terenos, then adwarf must be the most evil one here.

Also, on the topic of Hartcus's rebellion:

They couldn't have killed 4 humans (A species with much greater weapons and Training, not to forget their hight.) for every Gnome (A tiny creature that barely has any decent weaponary or armour, or any training). The only way that Hartius dude could get them to kill on that ratio is to use some kind of dark art to make them insanely stronger.

[Taricus]

Or only one of the four was actually fighting.

[Criptfeind]

gnomes are weaker than most races, so magic would be the most useful, and since necromancy allows the raising of the dead to fight for me, and the ability to use those very helpful curse spells it seems most beneficial

@ JF

I said they used it but only around 2 out of 100 gnomes have any magical talent that amounts to that of a wizard

That is not really how you betrayed them in most of your story. But who cares? My point was that I thought you were going to go steam punk to make up for your natural deficiency.

Also one out of fifty guys is a HUGE amount to be wizards. A traditional number in much lore about humans would be one in a thousand or one in ten thousand.

JF -
Gnomes do not use slaves, because they themselves have been inslaved for many years.

What is necromancery but a type of enslavement?

I smell hypocrisy.

Maybe you see see the truth about you Gnomes in Cripts fluff 4 pages ago.

Well it completely goes agianst my fluff which I am typing up the rest right now. SO his fluff is wrong.

I wrote it so not only did it fit every thing you wrote from a differing perspective, but it also filled up many of the plot holes you left. Like really, your story made very very little sense before I made my changes.

If you are changing it now... Well that makes you in the wrong now does it not?

ACtually Cript's fluff was told as a story handed down over many generations. Perhaps the Gnomes were not the true fiends of the day, Perhaps they just somehow got lumped in there. You know how it goes..Years of retelling and retelling..Things change.

Yes. That is the point of the story. History can be seen in very different ways. Differing events that are in fact the same from different cultures are a big issue in collecting a solid history of the world.

History may never know for certain what version is correct. All historians can do is comb though and try to find the accounts that are not as conflicting.

That said, I would venture to say that my story is much more coherent and well thought out. If I was a historian I would put more weight on my side of the story.

What he said about dark magic is wrong the carts are powered by steam, and or burning coal. WHilst the Gnome Copters are powered by pedals that the gnomes driving it would push like when your riding a bicycle as the pedals are pushed the rotors on top spin bringing it into the air were a fin  ont the back controls the angle, and direction you are moving.

Okay. The nitty gritty.

That is what you believe from your histories. But if you look what happens in the real world you will find some differences.

You have two strong connections with necromancery. You were attacked the undead RIGHT in the area my story said the undead are plentiful. And what is your first research goal? Is it mechanics? No. It is necromancery.

My story has more and more elements of truth in it and yours is fading to nothing but a optimistic fantasy.

Also gyrocopters like that are nine types of impossible.

Look at it from a historians perspective. On one hand you have a coherent possible story that fits with the facts of the world. And on the other hand you have a wild account that defiantly appeared after the fact that makes very little sense.

[Johnfalcon99977]

He has a point adwarf. Cripts story makes far more sense than yours.

It may not be what really happened, but it must sure be close.

[Criptfeind]

I just read the new parts of adwarf fluff.

Nothing really that changes my side. Can just be fragmented reminders. Or what happened after we left and the empire stepped in.

I love how he describes the enemy as a hero.

Would that not make the gnomes the villains?

[Terenos]

Warning. Lore Ahead.

The Continent of Northbrand

When Orcs gather together, there are tales are always told of the land now known as Northbrand, or "Ur-Gavok" in their own tongue. The Proving Grounds(or the First Lands) to translate it into our own tongue. The Orcs, are a hardy race, well suited to harsh climates and long winters. By strength and brutality they conquered once a mighty empire. What follows is a rough collaboration of tales and myths that perhaps give insight to the history of the Orcs.

Spoiler: Giirvak's Dream (click to show/hide)

When the world was young and the lands were being formed and divided, the brutish war-god Giirvak challenged the will of the other Gods, and was struck down into an unending sleep. And in this sleep did Giirvak dream. His dreams were born of fire and blood, a fight unending in his mind. A fight that could not be won, but must not be lost.

And Lo for in his dream he raised up servants to aid him against the other Gods, and he gave his children the land of Ur-Gavok. "For this shall be your proving ground, and when your strength is great indeed you will bring a reckoning upon the children of those who would deny me." And huddled in the cold, the Orcs heard and prepared. Giirvak also gave the land many cunning and strong beasts, to test his children constantly. Through hardship they would grow strong.

Spoiler: The Time of Blood (click to show/hide)

The first age, by the Orcish Calendar (or what we would call a calendar) is the Age of Blood. When Orc struck down Orc in brutal combat over sparse resources and territory. There was no greater unity to speak of, only the tribe mattered. Yet still the Orcs as a whole prospered. New means to wage war were constantly being devised, countered, improved, forgotten, and devised anew. Conflict raged for generation after generation and the strong always dominated the weak.

Some say the Time of Blood lasted a thousand years, or more. We cannot know.

But the Time of Blood also includes the Unification, of both the Great Wizard, and all the Orcish tribes. You see, the way its told there was an Orc who stood 3 meters tall, with fiery blood and the rage of the north wind. An axe that could split boulders and a voice that shook the very mountains down (Which the orcs claim, is why there are no mountains in Northbrand today.) The Orcs revere his name, and thus it is never spoken to other races. This Orc, in his time through war and fire claimed tribe after tribe after tribe, until an army worthy of a nation followed his rule and his rule alone. It was a united front that had not been seen before.

Tempering their bloodlust with fierce gladitorial matches, and hard labor the Ur-Warlord built the Orcish people into a nation, pure and free, founded upon strength in whatever form it took. But there were dark stirrings in the south...

Spoiler: The Dark Times (click to show/hide)

By the Orcish Calendar, the Dark Times began the day a strange construction of wood was spotted in the seas near Vaborg. Landing, it spewed forth strange skinned beings, with shiny skin and weapons, the Orcs were surprised by this development but when weapons were drawn by the newcomers the Orcs responded with force overwhelming. Metal and training may be advantageous, but were no match for the raw animal savagery of the Orcs. Seizing the vessel and killing the invaders to a man, the Ur-Warlord declared their vessel to be an omen of Giirvak, and that it was time to ready themselves for a great cleansing.

Months passed, other ships came, and their crews and troops summarily killed, captured, tortured for knowledge as to the workings of seafaring and navigation(But not shipbuilding). In this time did the Orcs first encounter Magic but they dismissed it out of hand (Orcs love at this point to scoff at the foolishness of others, who use magic though this may be a sort of envious scoffing). In time the Orcs gained great knowledge of seafaring and used this knowledge to explore and map the nearby world, coming across the Isle of Shadevale, already claimed by the Arcanan Empire.

The Ur-Warlord rallied his fleet, and descended upon the isle of Shadevale. The humans were caught unaware, after all these were Imperial ships. The Humans were slaughtered to a man after it was determined they did not worship Giirvak in any of his forms. It was in this place that the Orcs discovered metal stockpiles for the first time, but made no moves to utilize it. Seizing excellent maps the Orcs feasted and drank of the supplies in Shadevale, as the Ur-Warlord planned his next move.

Some say this is where the downfall of the Ur-Warlord began, others argue that his continued success brought about his downfall.

Stay Tuned for Part 2, in which the Orcish Empire invades Imperia.

(Is it sketchy? Perhaps a little. But I like to leave holes for others to put their own lore in.)

[Johnfalcon99977]

Also, the entire "Gnomes were enslaved" thing contridicts my story in a sense. If the other beings and the OE were using almost an entire race for slave labour, why would they use the small, bitchy, Gnomes that almost never worked as slaves? They would've just imported Ariani slaves of there already surplus supply of them to Farland for the extra labour.

[Taricus]

Thats where my fluff comes in.

Not written yet but It'll come.

[Johnfalcon99977]

You know, the more we look at it, the more plot holes we have yet to fill.

[Taricus]

Plot hole summary please.

[Johnfalcon99977]

Too lazy. Blarg.

[Criptfeind]

Also, the entire "Gnomes were enslaved" thing contridicts my story in a sense. If the other beings and the OE were using almost an entire race for slave labour, why would they use the small, bitchy, Gnomes that almost never worked as slaves? They would've just imported Ariani slaves of there already surplus supply of them to Farland of the extra labour.

Yes. That is one of the plot holes I was talking about.

Plot hole summary please.

Of who? Everyone?

[Taricus]

Everyones.

[Terenos]

I actually kinda like this whole xenophobia we're painting the Old Empire with. That amuses me to an extent.
Theres plenty of plot holes, but y'know, build lore and they'll get filled. Lets just try not to say our own lore is definitive, be all, end all. We're posting points of view. Collected stories, old manuscripts. There will be conflicting bits in history. It makes it richer.

[Criptfeind]

I am not sure if that is possible. I can try.

As to Terenos, you are 100% correct. But I do not think he was talking about just differences in lore. I think Taricus meant things that just out right do not make sense.