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[Zarhon]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't believe nobody posted this pic yet. It's as perfect as it can get.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Are there any sea-ponies in the game yet? It's only a matter of time before somepony drains an ocean to get their valuable parts. 

[Theropod Watcher]

Nidokoenig, this is your project, and you can do with it what you like... but I feel this is getting farther and farther from the show. The Lions Civilization is my main concern, griffons are what we see as sentient, manticores as animals... Another thing is I feel there are too many civs with the blind cave bear and honey badger and whatnot civs. Unless I gen a medium world, I often will not get all the other races. Diamond Dogs is by far the least common civ. I really REALLY feel the whole triple caste thing has gone WAAAY too far. I would like to remove them myself, but I don't know exactly how. Also, everything is just too complicated, I mean yes, this is DF, but you need a freakin' chart to figure out all the stuff you've added.

[Dsarker]

Nidokoenig, this is your project, and you can do with it what you like... but I feel this is getting farther and farther from the show. The Lions Civilization is my main concern, griffons are what we see as sentient, manticores as animals... Another thing is I feel there are too many civs with the blind cave bear and honey badger and whatnot civs. Unless I gen a medium world, I often will not get all the other races. Diamond Dogs is by far the least common civ. I really REALLY feel the whole triple caste thing has gone WAAAY too far. I would like to remove them myself, but I don't know exactly how. Also, everything is just too complicated, I mean yes, this is DF, but you need a freakin' chart to figure out all the stuff you've added.

It's not supposed to be following the show, silly! It's loosely inspired by the show.

[Zangi]

Nidokoenig, this is your project, and you can do with it what you like... but I feel this is getting farther and farther from the show. The Lions Civilization is my main concern, griffons are what we see as sentient, manticores as animals... Another thing is I feel there are too many civs with the blind cave bear and honey badger and whatnot civs. Unless I gen a medium world, I often will not get all the other races. Diamond Dogs is by far the least common civ. I really REALLY feel the whole triple caste thing has gone WAAAY too far. I would like to remove them myself, but I don't know exactly how. Also, everything is just too complicated, I mean yes, this is DF, but you need a freakin' chart to figure out all the stuff you've added.

Hmm... its pretty easy taking out castes and and even civs outright.  Heck, I or anyone else can cut stuff out for you.  With instructions to do it yourself also...  But yea, I'd have to figure out how I'd go about uploading the modified version and then Nidokoenig would have to be ok with it if he doesn't do it himself.

[Zarhon]

It's not supposed to be following the show, silly! It's loosely inspired by cupcakes.

Fixed that for you

[Telgin]

Nidokoenig, this is your project, and you can do with it what you like... but I feel this is getting farther and farther from the show. The Lions Civilization is my main concern, griffons are what we see as sentient, manticores as animals... Another thing is I feel there are too many civs with the blind cave bear and honey badger and whatnot civs. Unless I gen a medium world, I often will not get all the other races. Diamond Dogs is by far the least common civ. I really REALLY feel the whole triple caste thing has gone WAAAY too far. I would like to remove them myself, but I don't know exactly how. Also, everything is just too complicated, I mean yes, this is DF, but you need a freakin' chart to figure out all the stuff you've added.

I haven't actually bothered to install the new version yet (it's on my to-do list), but I think I'd probably agree.  I'm perfectly happy to play with just ponies and diomedian ponies, but I find the addition of zebras, buffalo, diamond dogs and griffons as civilizations a good thing too since they're depicted that way in the cartoon.  Adding castes to them doesn't sound unbelievable, but since we haven't seen this in the cartoon I would just assume that only the ponies come in flavors like that.

The complication related to the armor, ents and other stuff is perfectly fine to me.  I could just do with a little tutorial on how it all works!

I haven't actually done much digging in the raws, but it's not all that difficult to modularize it, right?  Perhaps someone should take the time to make different packages and releases for common configurations.  You know, a pony pack, diomedian pony pack, zebras, griffons (possibly with a cast / no caste version, but that's getting complicated fast).  Then the other less related things like the carnifex and termagant ponies could be separate and those who don't want them just don't install that pack.  An all encompassing release could include it all, and there could be a more basic release with just canon civilizations, for example.

Yeah, you can mod them out if desired, but that's more trouble than a lot of people are willing to go through.  I for example don't know how (yet).  I think maybe I'll make that my first modding project (although I doubt I could be bothered to do what I mention above in any reasonable time frame).

Don't get me wrong!  I love the mod!  I'd just like to maybe see a "canon" vs. "non-canon" set of releases.

[DarkGenesis]

The Lions Civilization is my main concern.

Really? Not the Cave ponies or the Diomedian ponies? I would think that they are much further deviations from the show than the fact that manticores are sentient instead of animal.

When I read that Griffons were being added I was extremely curious as to how Nidokoenig would get them to fit into the whole 3 caste. Then I saw the Lion Civ, raised an eyebrow curiously, read further and saw Manticores and Sphinxes and couldn't help but chuckle. I for one really like the 3 caste theme, I really like how it's being continued as it makes the races all seem balanced and in some way connected.

EDIT:

Yeah, you can mod them out if desired, but that's more trouble than a lot of people are willing to go through.  I for example don't know how (yet).  I think maybe I'll make that my first modding project (although I doubt I could be bothered to do what I mention above in any reasonable time frame).

Actually with how Nidokoenig has created the mod, I believe all you have to do is remove the respective "creature_pony_X", "entity_pony_X", "body_pony_X" textfiles. I might be wrong, but it's worth a shot!

[Theropod Watcher]

Well, the diomedians are fine, and kind of needed. It's less adding stuff, and more contradicting what we've seen in the show. Also, there are way too many ent types as of the new release. I mean, I get having different fruit, but all the variations are just a pain.

[DarkGenesis]

Well, the diomedians are fine, and kind of needed. It's less adding stuff, and more contradicting what we've seen in the show.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with that statement? Cause clearly a pony with a tentacle horn, bat wings and a vampire bite, is a huge contradiction to the show? Heck just having this mod in Dwarf Fortress is a giant contradiction.

Also, there are way too many ent types as of the new release. I mean, I get having different fruit, but all the variations are just a pain.

Just revert to the old version then... Jeeze... Or if you don't like so much about it - make your own mod.

Nidokoenig has worked hard on this and basically you've said nothing good about the latest update. Instead of complaining: edit it yourself. I didn't agree with a few of the learning rates so I read the DF wiki and learned how to change them myself. It doesn't seem fair at all to get Nidokoenig to do all the work to fit your exact needs, you'd be better off learning how to do it yourself and then you can tailor it to fit your ideal world.



EDIT: After re-reading what I said I realized I may have been a bit harsh... but I know I'd be very upset to work hard on a mod and have all my hard work figuratively shat on.

[Sean Mirrsen]

* Sean Mirrsen laments abandoning the CleanSlate project.

"It would have been SO EASY!!!"

* Sean Mirrsen goes off to wallow in whatever it is ADD-afflicted programmers are supposed to wallow in.

[Nidokoenig]

 I did promise to make some adjustments and add some notes that would make it easier to read the raws and chop out specific castes cleanly, I just go a little pushed for time and let it slip, as with the simplified wood module I promised. I'll have to try and think of a way to simplify dough making, besides just giving fewer options. What do people think of separating the bakeries out, maybe based on fat-type and quality, so people aren't getting snowed under with a vast sea of red?

 I've said before that putting the different castes in is as much about verisimilitude to me as about doing cool things, not having them makes the pony creatures look like they're the reason the world exists, which just doesn't sit right with me, and I'm sure if zebras, griffons and buffalo appeared more regularly, they'd be diversified in the show. Which reminds me, it'd probably be a good idea to splice in animal zebras, buffalo and lions(as separate files), and have a diversified version of diamond dogs(adapted for ease of editing). I think what Theropod Watcher's getting at about diomedians is that, with the way Dorf Fort is set up, there needs to be a vile force of darkness for the game to work properly, so it's easier to go along with artistic license in creating an enemy civilisation than in other places where it's more of a flavour thing.

 It'd probably be a good idea to make a newbie-friendly version with just regular ponies, cave ponies, diamond dogs and honey badger ponies, and other simplifications to make it more accessible. Guides are also a good idea, I'll write up some wiki-style summaries of the various new things added. I just tend to err on the side of leaving in complexity, this is dorf fort, after all.

 There is a tag to limit the number of civs of a given type, I'll probably limit the ones that tend to run wild to two or three. Honey badger civs have a tendency to struggle, though, I'm not sure why. I think it might be related to dark fortresses. Zebras and lions need more tweaking to prevent them running wuite so wild.

 The ent complexity does kind of explode the available livestock, but as with castes generally, apples have a golden version(it's mentioned Celestia has a golden apple tree in the show), so I gave everything else it's own fancy things. The limes might be a bit much, but I think the rareness of the best limes is a neat mirror to relatively frequent appearance of the pink finger limes. Larahas are pretty much dead weight until the cocktail arc, I have to admit.

[Telgin]

but I know I'd be very upset to work hard on a mod and have all my hard work figuratively shat on.

It's part of the risk of putting stuff up in the public I guess, but I agree.  The mod is available to us for no effort, so we obviously can't expect it to be everything we wanted.  But, part of this is offering (hopefully) constructive criticism, and our opinions on how we'd like to see it improve.

I don't think adding this stuff to the mod is a bad thing.  You almost can't go wrong giving people more options.  But I think I will dig into the raws and figure out how to turn some of them off for my games, maybe.  I'll give it a go without changing anything first, and then if I think something needs changing I'll give that a shot.

You bring up a good point about the diomedian ponies though.  I hadn't even really noticed that they are just as made up as the multi castes for other civilizations, since I think of them as just ponies when they attack.  They're almost necessary as a goblin replacement, but I wonder how else this might be handled.  Based on what I understand war with civilizations that don't have atrocious ethics like the goblins is uncommon, so there probably wouldn't be enough conflict without them.

For that matter, is it even possible to be at war with your own species (presumably in another civilization)?  I wouldn't mind being at war with other regular ponies.  I've never heard of this happening in vanilla DF, so I'm guessing that would be a no, due to the ethics being equal between the two.

[Pokon]

Actualy, I just made DDs the size of a slippy pony, and they are doing fine. After all, they where at least the size of Rarity in the episode they where in. They dont stand a chance in there currant form in world gen. As in, they are worse than "bolds when attempting to survive the smallest of other civs.


Oh, and a Zebra of mine just went cupcakes on a fellow two-horn, and is constructing something out of her. Hopefully it will be useful, because that was my best woodcutter.

That, and she has a little filly who was born a season ago. Poor thing is going to die, considering its outside and I have been getting seiges every few seasons. And there from buffalo, so shes doomed. That, and I dont plan of emptying the moat.

You bring up a good point about the diomedian ponies though.  I hadn't even really noticed that they are just as made up as the multi castes for other civilizations, since I think of them as just ponies when they attack.  They're almost necessary as a goblin replacement, but I wonder how else this might be handled.  Based on what I understand war with civilizations that don't have atrocious ethics like the goblins is uncommon, so there probably wouldn't be enough conflict without them.

Indeed. I actualy had to fiddle around with the zebra ethics to make sure that they will war with somepony, because they almost always end up smothering other civs due to never warring. Ever.
In the end of one world, there where pockets of buffalo and rainbows, but zebras ruled the world. There where ponies on a rather small chunk of land isolated from the rest by a river, and I could not find Cave or Dromidiens anywhere.

Really? Not the Cave ponies or the Diomedian ponies? I would think that they are much further deviations from the show than the fact that manticores are sentient instead of animal.

I always just thought of the Cave ponies as underground mutents, with all the freaky stuff you can find underground. I blame the proximity of the clownhouse.
And honastly, I actualy thought the Diomedians should have been called the " Childeren of Nightmare" or something forbiding, because they are the general evil race. After all, if we are slaves to Celestia, than who are the spawn of Luna...

And besides, there are plently of creatures that are inteligent but cannot talk. Look at dragons: out of the two adults, we have gotten one line out of them, while spike has no issues with talking with ponies. Its probable that all eqines share a language, all cat-like creatures have one, ex.

[Nidokoenig]

 With civs, you only get one of each species, and the one of your species will always be your parent civ. Which means that if they're dead, you only get the first two migrations and the first caravan. That could be changed with duplicate civs, I think an older version or one of my tests had a diomedian dupe. The war problem is that the civ your parent civ is at war with has to be the nearest example of that civ, so if a buffalo civ your parent has been at war with for the last five hundred years of world gen is two squares away from your embark site, and another buffalo civ that's at peace is just one square away, you only get peaceful caravans.

 To be honest, I'd feel odd being precious about this mod. After all, it's a mod, the whole idea behind it is to mess around and make changes to Dorf Fort so it suits me, so I'm OK with people having their own opinions on how to make it better, and I'll make sure to make moddability a higher priority in future updates.

 I think the buffalo nerf may have been a little too powerful, rebalancing entities is going to be a goal over the next few weeks, once I get tired of/have Fun in Gesithâtrid. I do recommend genning a relatively large world, though, given the sheer number of civs. Zebras seem to get on quite poorly with lions, but the wars don't seem to blunt their expansion, they just keep sending groups of up to four thousand at each other for hundreds of years.

 I always plan, but have never gotten around to, putting my butchers, tanners and leatherworks in the middle of a separate noble's quarters. This is assuming fell mooders claim the workshop first before they start looking for... materials?

[Pokon]

I always plan, but have never gotten around to, putting my butchers, tanners and leatherworks in the middle of a separate noble's quarters. This is assuming fell mooders claim the workshop first before they start looking for...materials?

Oh Blueblood, come out, come out, where ever you are...

" Rarity has created a artifact pony leather dress! It glimmers with inlays of rubies and opal!"