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[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Oh... Oh damn. Thats just... Wrong. It makes it seem so petty really... The american army lets people like that in? How sad...

an American maybe able to correct me if im wrong, but at least until the early 1990s, if not present some states would offer an army tour as an alternative to a short term prison sentence.

That got changed after the 1970's, a time when the US military was literally nothing but a bunch of alcoholic druggies.  That was when "Goto to War or Goto Jail" was more than a marching cadence.  Ronald Reagan, wether you love him or hate him, is the man who cleaned up the military and re-instilled patriotism and honor to the services.  Criminals were kicked out, standards were set for advancement and recruitment began looking for more intelligent candidates for service.  That being said, when I entered the Army in 1991, my entrance scores were in the 96th percentile.  The man sitting behind me at the MEPS center got a 38 and passed.  But, that score does not indicate a predeliction to the amoral murder of civilians.  Just want to make that clear.

PS - there are some realllllllly dumb people in the Army.  The stories I could tell you.......sheesh.

[Tellemurius]

Thats why the marines wanted people over 50 with their MEPS

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

yeah, hate to admit it, but marines are ...... smarter isnt the right word.  They have a higher minimum intellect requirement.  Also, a MUCH lower enlistment number to meet and can therefore be more choosy.  If I could go back, I would so join the marines or navy instead of the Army.  But, also, my experiences were very very cool in the Army anyway.

[Heron TSG]

Why does war have to bring out the worst in people...

If it brought out the best in people there wouldn't be any wars.

This is terrible, but it's pretty clear that the government didn't sanction it.

[IronyOwl]

Why does war have to bring out the worst in people...

If it brought out the best in people there wouldn't be any wars.

More importantly, if we could be civil about it we'd be playing chess or doing a boxing match instead. War is pretty much the definition of "when all else fails."

This is terrible, but it's pretty clear that the government didn't sanction it.

I'm curious how quickly they caught on to it though. If people are doing stuff in your name, on your payroll, in your gear, you're still responsible for it.

[Ochita]

So god is responsible for many deaths? hummmm.... but this isn't religion, so...

Yeah, as I said. Radicals.

[Urist is dead tome]

I'm curious how quickly they caught on to it though. If people are doing stuff in your name, on your payroll, in your gear, you're still responsible for it.

Apparently they caught on in August, probably further back.

[Sir Finkus]

More importantly, if we could be civil about it we'd be playing chess or doing a boxing match instead. War is pretty much the definition of "when all else fails."

Or both

[Askot Bokbondeler]

bilal rocks!

[breadbocks]

More importantly, if we could be civil about it we'd be playing chess or doing a boxing match instead. War is pretty much the definition of "when all else fails."

Unfortunately, not quite. Some people can't hold onto their pants when they smell a chance at glory.

[Sowelu]

So redefine glory.  Culturehacking is hard work, but worth it.

[de5me7]

my logic in asking about criminals being conscripted is purely based on films. The protagonist in Buffalo soliders (set in 1989 in Germany), and i think one of the characters in Jar head (set first gulf war) are criminal conscripts.

[Urist is dead tome]

my logic in asking about criminals being conscripted is purely based on films. The protagonist in Buffalo soliders (set in 1989 in Germany), and i think one of the characters in Jar head (set first gulf war) are criminal conscripts.

They mostly did that during Vietnam, I would guess. Considering the view on the military back then.

[Sergius]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protect themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation.

For some reason, it just keeps getting worse. I'll give you an example of that. There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap.

In the first world war, that condition was called Shell Shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, Shell Shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago.

Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called Battle Fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell Shock! Battle Fatigue.

Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called Operational Exhaustion. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car.

Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it Shell Shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time.

That's weird. I'm pretty sure at the time it was called Shell Shock (also called cowardice), people got summarily executed for it, precisely because it wasn't recognized as actual psychological disorder. And now we gave it a scientific or whatever name, because, yeah, they're not pussies who decided war is hard, but soldiers who got severely traumatized.

[Strife26]

my logic in asking about criminals being conscripted is purely based on films. The protagonist in Buffalo soliders (set in 1989 in Germany), and i think one of the characters in Jar head (set first gulf war) are criminal conscripts.

They mostly did that during Vietnam, I would guess. Considering the view on the military back then.

You have to remember that a lot of people join the military because they realize that their life is going to hell if they don't change it. A bus (plane nowindays) ticket to basic is the easiest way out of a lot of cities. However, I wouldn't put it past a judge to demand that minor criminals do something to change their life around.