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[Blade Master Model 42]

I just want to preface this with  the fact that I love dwarf fortress and cage traps.
Heck I base the majority of my siege defense on them. That said, they're a tad hardcore.

Seriously, these things will obliterate half of a siege and they are 100 percent effective.

I think they'd be less cheap if whether or not they captured an enemy was based on mechanism and cage quality, versus the enemy dodging skill.

Thoughts?

[King_of_the_weasels]

Cages will eventually get reworked.

[Bohandas]

Seriously, these things will obliterate half of a siege and they are 100 percent effective.

Unless they have TRAPAVOID. Then the cage traps are 0 percent effective. If this gets nerfed than TRAPAVOID needs to get nerfed too (if they're both nerfed then I support the idea, otherwise no.)

[Angel Of Death]

Seriously, these things will obliterate half of a siege and they are 100 percent effective.

Unless they have TRAPAVOID. Then the cage traps are 10 percent effective. If this gets nerfed than TRAPAVOID needs to get nerfed too (if they're both nerfed then I support the idea, otherwise no.)

Trapavoid creatures can get trapped if webbed.

[Blade Master Model 42]

Nerfing trapavoid along with this makes sense too, maybe replace it with a tag that makes them beter at dodging traps specifically. Or something.

What else does webbing do?

[Girlinhat]

Giant Cave Spider webs cause the unique status, "Webbed".  While webbed, any creature triggers traps, including weapon traps, pressure plates, and cage traps.  You can capture FB/Titans with a GCS web farm and well-placed cages, and even capture your own dwarves (who promptly dehydrate).

[Blade Master Model 42]

Well, you could avoid dorf webbing by forbidding the web and trap hall, right?

[Girlinhat]

Yes, but animals and children ignore restrictions.  I've had numerous children ruin a perfectly primed web trap.  Coincidentally, this is why I know that dwarves in cages will dehydrate...

[Silverionmox]

I just want to preface this with  the fact that I love dwarf fortress and cage traps.
Heck I base the majority of my siege defense on them. That said, they're a tad hardcore.

Seriously, these things will obliterate half of a siege and they are 100 percent effective.

I think they'd be less cheap if whether or not they captured an enemy was based on mechanism and cage quality, versus the enemy dodging skill.

Thoughts?

Well, then the military will have to be more reliable first. Right now cage traps are what keeps my fortress alive while my soldiers finish their drink/nap/meal/check their chests.

[iron_general]

As far as reworking them, I'd be content if they had the same accuracy/mechanics as a stone fall trap. Quality and the evaision of the trigging creature would be factored in.

[Michael]

One intuitive way to nerf cage traps versus sieges, is to allow attackers to break cages they find holding their allies.  Since the cage just sits there until a civilian dwarf comes to drag it to a stockpile, a "buddy system" would render the densest cage trap emplacement a mere speed bump.  But at the same time, the cage trap would remain completely effective against animal thieves with no trapavoid.

To employ cage traps to any lasting effect against goblins, then, one would first have to break up their squads into lone units, so that the civilian dwarf can haul the cage to a secure zone before another goblin can reach it.

Incidentally, this might be a way to remove the need for adventurer trap immunity.  Getting caged alone in an abandoned fort would still mean death (or at least an eternity in the magical cage timewarp), but just one follower would be needed to let you go.

[Sarvesh Mossbeard]

IMO Size and material should factor in what cages can safely hold

[flieroflight]

My idea- wooden cages hold wild animals
-metal cages hold regular enemys and non builing destroyer invader mounts
-weapon metal cages hold anything

[Sfon]

Strength could allow breaking out of a cage. Material type would determine how easy a cage is to break. Adamantium and artifact cages would be the only ones completely immune to strength breakouts.

Intelligence could allow escaping, too. The smarter the creature, the faster it can get out. Cage quality would work against this sort of breakout, with better quality cages assumed to have a better latch/lock mechanism which is more resistant to opening from the inside. Only artifact cages would be completely immune to intelligence breakouts. A Goblin could be held by a masterwork cage for quite some time, but they'd still get out eventually.

Allowing masterwork or metal less than adamantium to be completely reliable would be too easy. It should be impossible to mass produce 100% reliable cages.

This is all probably too complex for its own good, though. A simple combined strength and intelligence vs combined material and quality test might be better. In this case both adamantium and artifacts could be completely immune to breakouts.

[Silverionmox]

The creature's escape skill should match the quality of the cage in order to escape. It takes a master thief to escape from a masterwork trap, right? It speaks for itself that Grubby the goblin spearman recruit has no real chance to foil the lock of that masterwork cage, whether inside or outside it.

He might be able to smash it though. Simply breaking the cage is another matter entirely. That's force vs. the material of the cage, and to a much smaller extent the quality. Tiredness, wounds, bonds, etc. should effect the creature's available strength.