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[Radiant_Phoenix]

Yeah, I didn't give their entity shoes. Or pants.

[NW_Kohaku]

Could probably do it that way, maybe limit the armour you can put on the tail to chain or leather at most. Just kind of trying to avoid turning them into steel encased machines of death. Cause if we go with the larger than human nagas like Girl was thinking about, they might just get to be a little too powerful.

Well, that was part of why I made lamia relatively small.

Their total tail area was relsize 5400 compared to a total humanoid torso relsize of 1600 and total humanoid relsize of 2860.  (The tail replaces relsize 2440 of human lower torso and legs.) This adds up to roughly 1/3 of their body being human by total volume (this presumes the human portion is wider than the serpentine portion, so that the tail is more than just twice as long).  (Tail could probably stand to take up more of the body, but I wanted the humanoid section to still be large enough to be relatively humanoid.)

Hence, a 65,000 size lamia, compared to a 70,000 average human, where that lamia is 5,300 of relsize, and the lamia has a total of 8260 relsize.  Each relsize of a human hence corrisponds to 13.21 size, while each relsize of a lamia correlates to 7.87.  This means that, by comparison, since I kept most of the humanoid relsizes, the lamia is roughly 60% of the proportionate size of a human.  A dwarf, meanwhile, is 86% of a human, proportionately. 

This would make them have humanoid body portions approximately like those of a four-foot-tall person.

These were relatively small lamia. 

[Patchy]

Haven't forgotten about the screenies here. Just kept getting interupted by life. I did notice that the wax worker didn't have a sprite. Will probably have something by tomorrow, just trying to get through a year or 2 so I have something semi nice to screenie. I'll post one though whether I get the time to play past the first year or not though. Anyways, excellent work NW_Kohaku.

4 foot on their humanoid half is a bit smaller than I kind of imagined them though, but if it's the only way to balance them, I'm fine with it. And back in the middle ages, people were generally around that height too I suppose and 5 foot was probably considered tall. Well lookie there, I've practically talked myself out of the bigger nagas heh. Guess go with whatever you want as far as tail clothing/armour.

[Sutremaine]

No, people in the Middle Ages were about the same height as us. The shortest people ever got was in the 1700s, after people moved into cities but before they figured out how to make cities run properly. Even then we're only talking about a couple of inches.

[NW_Kohaku]

I did notice that the wax worker didn't have a sprite.

Wax workers? Wow, completely missed that... 

Phoebus doesn't have a wax worker in the version I downloaded and was using as a guide (I was using Phoebus's graphics raw as a list of positions I needed to make graphics for).  I didn't stop to check if there were more positions that were missing.

4 foot on their humanoid half is a bit smaller than I kind of imagined them though, but if it's the only way to balance them, I'm fine with it. And back in the middle ages, people were generally around that height too I suppose and 5 foot was probably considered tall. Well lookie there, I've practically talked myself out of the bigger nagas heh. Guess go with whatever you want as far as tail clothing/armour.

Yeah, I think it's small, too.  I was making them small compared to a dwarf, since they were living with dwarves, but I'll re-proportion them to humans - try to make them less child-sized.

I guess I'll just make them less strong to compensate a little.

What do you think is a good proportion for nagas compared to humans (in terms of the size of their humanoid bodies)?  Should their humanoid portions be equal in size to humans, larger, or smaller?  I will make them bigger than this, but still smaller than a human.

No, people in the Middle Ages were about the same height as us. The shortest people ever got was in the 1700s, after people moved into cities but before they figured out how to make cities run properly. Even then we're only talking about a couple of inches.

Technically, they were smaller during much of the Ancient World and Dark Ages - especially when their diets consisted of a single cereal grain, only occasionally supplemented by other vegetables and the occasional game meat.  It depended on how much the people foraged, generally - the more they foraged and hunted, the healthier they were.  The more they relied upon civilized sources of food like staple crop plantings, the less healthy they became.

[Patchy]

Yeah, I think it's small, too.  I was making them small compared to a dwarf, since they were living with dwarves, but I'll re-proportion them to humans - try to make them less child-sized.

I guess I'll just make them less strong to compensate a little.

What do you think is a good proportion for nagas compared to humans (in terms of the size of their humanoid bodies)?  Should their humanoid portions be equal in size to humans, larger, or smaller?  I will make them bigger than this, but still smaller than a human.

I see their human halves as being about the same as your average human. So then around 5 foot I guess. Or rather how tall is a human in df?

[NW_Kohaku]

I see their human halves as being about the same as your average human. So then around 5 foot I guess. Or rather how tall is a human in df?

Their average size is 70 kg (154 lbs), which is the same as the average of a healthy human from the first world today.  Presumably, they're all a bunch of 6-foot-tall Swedes.

Of course, if they're shorter and stockier, there is no real way for the game to convey that - dwarves are just 6/7ths miniature models of humans, and so are elves.  Elves and dwarves are, in coding terms, almost identical in terms of body shape in the absence of any "thin" or "stocky" modifiers in the current raws.  (Right down to the beards.)

[Patchy]

Ok, as promised got some pics, since everyone loves pics. The fort is about a year and a half in. Also using ironhands for these. And they look alright for being a 16x16 on an 18x18 set, though does df resize sprites to fit the tileset automatically?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The main level, its still a mess but it'll get cleaned up as the levels above it get cleared out. You can see the bottom of the entry shaft, at the top of the fort. No goblins have met it the hard way yet, but it should be anytime now.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The 2nd level of the fort, being cleaned up now. Will soon begin moving stuff up to it, to clean up the mess on the main floor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This pic I just combined 2 lvls into one, since there wasn't that much else to these floors. You can see the aquifer breach, and the level below it would be the top of the drop shaft you saw in the previous pics. It's functional at this point which is the main thing, but I will go through and clean up rest of the levels later.

I see their human halves as being about the same as your average human. So then around 5 foot I guess. Or rather how tall is a human in df?

Their average size is 70 kg (154 lbs), which is the same as the average of a healthy human from the first world today.  Presumably, they're all a bunch of 6-foot-tall Swedes.

Of course, if they're shorter and stockier, there is no real way for the game to convey that - dwarves are just 6/7ths miniature models of humans, and so are elves.  Elves and dwarves are, in coding terms, almost identical in terms of body shape in the absence of any "thin" or "stocky" modifiers in the current raws.  (Right down to the beards.)

Well then, I guess thats just one of those things we have to use our imaginations on. Though it is kind of funny thinking about short, fat, elves. Thats quite different from the race of anorexic supermodels they are usually portrayed as in most fantasy.

[NW_Kohaku]

Hmm... I wonder if everyone who uses Ironhand graphics likes those same large quasi-circular hallways, because every time I see pics of people using that graphics set, they always do that. 

Anyway, thanks for uploading and for the feedback, Patchy.  It's a neat fort you have, even if seems plagued by cheese makers.

I'm going to put up the updated DFFD soon right now.

I could also do other transformations of the graphics if you wanted.  Like fitting it into 18x18 or even oddball transformations.

I see their human halves as being about the same as your average human. So then around 5 foot I guess. Or rather how tall is a human in df?

Well, let me get back to reverse-engineering the proper size, then...

Their total tail area was relsize 5400 compared to a total humanoid torso relsize of 1600 and total humanoid relsize of 2860.  (The tail replaces relsize 2440 of human lower torso and legs.) This adds up to roughly 1/3 of their body being human by total volume (this presumes the human portion is wider than the serpentine portion, so that the tail is more than just twice as long).  (Tail could probably stand to take up more of the body, but I wanted the humanoid section to still be large enough to be relatively humanoid.)

Hence, a 65,000 size lamia, compared to a 70,000 average human, where that human is 5,300 of relsize, and the lamia has a total of 8260 relsize.  Each relsize of a human hence corrisponds to 13.21 size, while each relsize of a lamia correlates to 7.87.  This means that, by comparison, since I kept most of the humanoid relsizes, the lamia is roughly 60% of the proportionate size of a human.  A dwarf, meanwhile, is 86% of a human, proportionately. 

This would make them have humanoid body portions approximately like those of a four-foot-tall person.

These were relatively small lamia.

Without doing some sort of recalibration of the reslizes, and simply altering the overall body size...

70,000 / 5,300 * 8260 = 109,094 size.

Yeah, that seems pretty big...

And that's when I'm lowballing the size of the tail.

I'll definitely need to cripple strength down a bit.

[Patchy]

Anyway, thanks for uploading and for the feedback, Patchy.  It's a neat fort you have, even if seems plagued by cheese makers.

Isn't everyone's forts plagued by cheesemakers? Sheesh, if I knew a way to control what migrants I get I would. One of them is a high master shearer *eyeroll* and I generally don't keep grazers. Give them a few more years to get their new profession I assigned them higher than whatever they started with xP That shearer has a lot of blocks to make before he gets the mason sprite.

And yeah I do like the circle halls, and used them even with Phoebus' set. I actually did more square forts with ironhands before he added the diagonal walls though. This was my first fort with ironhands new diagonal walls, haven't played a fort since .21 when my Recettear break happened.

I wouldn't worry about the 18x18 resizing unless you want to for the ironhand players. I'm putting phoebus set back on, after I finish mucking about with this one.

[NW_Kohaku]

According to Toady, the game actually checks to see what jobs you don't have on any dwarves, and sends specialists in those skills in - killing off your fish cleaners makes your game go "Oh my God! The player's all out of fish cleaners! Send another!  No, send three!"

If you want the game to stop sending you fish cleaners, train a couple to ward off the "replacements".  Then kill off armorsmiths until you get a migrant grand master.

[Radiant_Phoenix]

Couldn't we just remove [PERMITTED_JOB:CHEESE_MAKER]?

[Patchy]

According to Toady, the game actually checks to see what jobs you don't have on any dwarves, and sends specialists in those skills in - killing off your fish cleaners makes your game go "Oh my God! The player's all out of fish cleaners! Send another!  No, send three!"

If you want the game to stop sending you fish cleaners, train a couple to ward off the "replacements".  Then kill off armorsmiths until you get a migrant grand master.

Read that somewhere else, and it does seem right in my experience. But since there are loads of farmer jobs that usually see so little work, guess what you get. That and I don't usually kill off the migrants, I just reassign them new jobs. Like the shearer I mentioned, "Guess what Urist McShearer... You now have a mid-life crisis! You start work as a mason like now!" And in his case, his sprite won't change to reflect his new job until he hits grandmaster or so. It is kind of annoying, I'd love it if the sprites reflected their highest "active" job. But thats something only Toady can change.

[NW_Kohaku]

Well, there also has to be a bit of a recognition on Toady's part that not all skills and attributes were created equal.

Seriously, why is it when we are building adventurers, or buying skills for our dwarves, "Musicality" is equal to "Agility", and "Lye Maker" is equal to "Weaponsmithing".  One of these things is not as valuable as the other.  One of these things doesn't belong. 

It's not that hard to make the game recognize one skill or attribute as worth several times the value of another attribute.

Running out of skilled farmers or soldiers might be a problem.  Running out of soapmakers is not. 

The best thing you can do, however, is start out with a few points spent on making some of your starting dwarves/nagas have "novice" levels in stupid skills like lye making.  It should at least up the odds of getting a swordmaster happening to stroll into town.

[Patchy]

Might be worth a try I suppose. But wouldn't it make more sense for migrants to hear that there is loads of demand for mining or masonry work to be done in the fort, but very little if any demand for lye makers and soapers? I'd rather prefer just getting peasants to Urist McHighmasteruseless.... oh well, my forts are made up of aging dwarves undergoing there mid-life crisis' hehe.