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[Uristocrat]

Is it posted on mantis?

Yes: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4296

Yeah, I didn't really think it was necessary, but so many people kept mentioning it that I felt like I had to put something there.  Oh well.

[Captain Mayday]

This is excellent work. I've added it to my own mod, and have of course credited you.
Thank you.

[Uristocrat]

This is excellent work. I've added it to my own mod, and have of course credited you.
Thank you.

Thanks.  I do kind of want to check the colors again, including adding links to pictures, because some of the current DF colors are arguably inconsistent.  Granted, you can't do much for things like opal, but it might be worth doing some experiments to see if making bloodstone red with a dark green background looks reasonable, because that's what the IRL gem looks like.  But it's a little bit hard to make gems appear on demand, you know?

If experienced modders like you have advice on that front, I'd like to hear it.  For now, I'm actually going through the DF wiki and trying to make sure we have images if any free images exist (for a lot of them, we seem to have images on the wiki, but not the article, and I'm not sure why).

There's also the fact that I'm reluctant to change some things.  We've been used to, say, cobaltite being blue for so long that the fact that the real stone isn't like that (at least on any of the samples I could find online) might actually be an unwelcome change.  I think gems are generally safer to change, though, because the average person probably has no idea what color anything other than, say, diamonds, emeralds and rubies are.

So I don't think I put anything too controversial in this mod in terms of color, but I'm certainly willing to listen to advice from anyone who has ideas on good ways to handle things.  As for myself, I'm thinking that not making any major color changes is better, even if bismuth is mostly blue with purplish highlights in the light, not the purple color it's shown as in game, just because I want people to be able to have colorful fortresses if they want to (though I guess they'd have rose gold for that particular case).

Anyhow, the point is that feedback on my color choices would be appreciated.

[Bohandas]

...even if bismuth is mostly blue with purplish highlights in the light, not the purple color it's shown as in game...

I believe that the reason why Bismuth is shown as pink in the game, is because that color is associated with the common Bismuth-based chemical C₇H₅BiO₄, Bismuth Subsalicylate, the main ingredient in 'Kaopectate' and 'Pepto Bismol'

[Uristocrat]

...even if bismuth is mostly blue with purplish highlights in the light, not the purple color it's shown as in game...

I believe that the reason why Bismuth is shown as pink in the game, is because that color is associated with the common Bismuth-based chemical C₇H₅BiO₄, Bismuth Subsalicylate, the main ingredient in 'Kaopectate' and 'Pepto Bismol'

Interesting.  I suspect something similar is the reason cobaltite is blue (there is, after all, a "cobalt blue").

That said, bismuth *does* look sort of a mottled purple/blue, it's just mostly blue.  I have a pure sample of the crystals (which were formed by electrolysis) and I spent quite a while looking at it and considering the color.  In fact, that sample is right behind me right now, on the shelf with all the other stuff.

I was considering trying to get pictures for the DF Wiki and I realized that I could actually get quite a lot of them.  I can't even remember what all I have or identify some of the things I have, but I'm sure I already have samples of many things, including at least fortification agate, gold, silver, bismuth, copper (including native copper), iron, nickel, rose quartz, amethyst, onyx, diamond, garnet, rock crystal, amber, coral, obsidian, turquoise, gypsum, mica, ...

[Uristocrat]

Incidentally, I'm thinking of looking at temperature values next.  I've already made a DF temperature calculator that should make things easier in that regard.

[Jeoshua]

PLEASE DO!

I personally have modded Obsidian to melt just below the temperature of magma (12000 Urist).  I expect that casting obsidian will no longer work once I get a test set up... or maybe it will, making you positively NEED to cool that magma quickly.  This would be pretty realistic, I think.  A dump of magma into a cool bath of water would work pretty well, I'd think

[Uristocrat]

PLEASE DO!

I personally have modded Obsidian to melt just below the temperature of magma (12000 Urist).  I expect that casting obsidian will no longer work once I get a test set up... or maybe it will, making you positively NEED to cool that magma quickly.  This would be pretty realistic, I think.  A dump of magma into a cool bath of water would work pretty well, I'd think

There's a note in the raws about obsidian.  Toady already has a realistic value for it, but doesn't want to use it because it doesn't work very well.  Maybe someday when he has a better model for lava flow.

[INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
[MELTING_POINT:13600]
   MELTING_POINT:11818 <-- I think this is from the data collected by the contributors above
   and is more accurate than the numbers we're using, but we're using a high melting point
   until environmental lava effects are further along.
[BOILING_POINT:16000]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:obsidian][DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177][LAVA]
[MAX_EDGE:20000]
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:2650]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[IS_STONE]

[NW_Kohaku]

PLEASE DO!

I personally have modded Obsidian to melt just below the temperature of magma (12000 Urist).  I expect that casting obsidian will no longer work once I get a test set up... or maybe it will, making you positively NEED to cool that magma quickly.  This would be pretty realistic, I think.  A dump of magma into a cool bath of water would work pretty well, I'd think

Obsidian-casting creates natural stone walls.  Those walls will not melt from being next to magma, nor will even wooden walls catch fire from magma being right next to them.  Walls are currently protected by virtually indestructable force fields that only fail in the face of dwarven pick technology.

[Jeoshua]

... and I suppose there is currently no way to mod the "Warm Stone" temperature.

An object, I would imagine even a wall, that melts at 10075 Urist should melt into magma, at the current time.  I haven't tried it out but it seems logical that it would work.

Toady really just needs to give everything realistic melting points, and make "Warm Stone" a touch hotter than +11 Degrees Urist over body temp.  And I mean, EVERYTHING should be able to melt if gotten hot enough.

Can you imagine what would happen when the 3d ore veins come into play, if certain ores that aren't magma safe were to melt?

Can you say "magma pipes"?

[NW_Kohaku]

I don't think it works that way - warm stone is just a stone next to magma (and it will be put to a warmer-than-normal temperature), but magma cannot actually melt anything that is constructed, nor can any constructed material or natural rock be harmed in any way EXCEPT by either ordering a dwarf to deconstruct or mine that tile or ice melting.  As far as I know, the game doesn't even bother to check stone for melting points.  You can funnel magma through corridors with wooden walls, and the wooden walls will never burn or melt.

[Uristocrat]

I now have a source for wood data.  I honestly had no idea that this was even out there.

But now we can make it so that all the logs in DF are no longer identical clones of each other (well, except for those cavern trees, which are pretty cool).

Fun!

[NW_Kohaku]

In that case, excellent work, again.

I need to get around to some of my own work... I feel like I'm falling behind.

[kaenneth]

If melting points were applied to current natural stone (and contructed) walls, I suspect the entire world would sink into, and be mostly melted by the magma sea... with large pools of molten light metals floating on top.

[Uristocrat]

If melting points were applied to current natural stone (and contructed) walls, I suspect the entire world would sink into, and be mostly melted by the magma sea... with large pools of molten light metals floating on top.

That depends on how accurate the simulation is.  The Earth, after all, actually has a molten core, so except perhaps for the demonic fortresses, DF is pretty realistic here in terms of having magma down there.