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[lordnincompoop]

Fixed.

[Heliman]

I got the idea because the post itself was thin air. I can't see any logic that could lead to Heliman being scum. Honestly, this is why pissing people off is an ineffective way to scumhunt. It just ends up wasting everyone's time.

Your case has some good points, but there are plenty of pointless points that were unnecessary. WIFOYIFOM? How do you figure that he's attempting to misinform the Town with something like that? A stretch.

Uh. Wuba. Please, tell me what good points I have. At this point there isn't a single fucking argument I can see in it.

[/quote]
Actually, allow me.

Your first solid point was where you said I was scumhunting Jim to distract from breadbocks. Admittedly, this is a solid argument, because although I tried to clarify as much as I could that this was not the case, the clarification itself could be perceived as a lie if someone really thought I was scumming it the whole game.

The second point you made was that I was contradicting myself in attacking Jim for trying to anger breadbocks, because I myself tried to anger breadbocks. This was an argument that I could poke holes in, but only by stating going into the subtle minutia of differences between the two (IE, Jim wasn't straightforward about it.)

Third point was the hypocrisy in using Egg's assault on Jim D2 as a reason for voting him when I went after Jim that same day too. By reading my post you could be led to believe that was the case because I didn't very clearly state large difference between his argument and mine as I could have.

All in all, you did put up a much better argument than bread, I must say. However, and I'm no IC, so Jim can feel free to slap me for saying this, but it seems that as you went further and further into my past posts, you eventually came to the point where you were so sure that you could make me look like scum that you could make EVERYTHING I said look like a lie, causing your argument to become very weak on a whole. As both scum and town, you must look at your post from both angles and predict any possible retorts your opponent will make to an argument before you make that argument. It's a basic debate strategy.

Despite my little theory I just made, you are still looking pretty scummy from all those contradictions and wild WIFOM accusations. Also, I'm no stranger to an IC making an argument sound deflated, but FOS Orangebottle- If Sim flips town you're at the top of my list tomorrow.


(P.S:Yes I know I sound like a jerk now and I'm sorry for that, but I'm really a sheep when not playing mafia, it's true!)

[Simmura McCrea]

I've been prodded, so I'm going to post at least something. I don't really think anything I can say right now will save me, unless webadict reads the thread, goes "OMG Simmura posted a coherent argument" and drops his vote against me. Which I don't think he ever actually voted, but I'll read back and see before I look like too much of an idiot.

[Simmura McCrea]

Yeah, I don't actually see webadict voting for me, unless he was voting for Egg before I replaced him, in which okay, that makes sense.

[lordnincompoop]

Yeah, he voted for the King.

Anything but "I don't really think anything I can say right now will save me" can save you. So start defending yourself.

[Simmura McCrea]

Oh, all right then.

I think I've figured where webadict is getting the "Heli is town" thing from, aside from out-of-game PMing. The early-game Heli/breadbocks argument. If Heli was scum why would he have gone after his scumpartner so aggressively? Ergo, Town.

Crown, you described yourself as a reactive player. So why did you never react to any of the aforementioned Heli/breadbocks argument?

I didn't want to get involved in a circle of uselessness

That's a possible defense, but there was plenty of other posting to react to, which you never did. I may be scummy to you, but that's pretty damn scummy to me.

Heli: Well, you still seem to be voting me since I replaced Egg. So I can't really defend myself for how scummy he looked. I might give it a go after work anyway, though.

[Toaster]

I don't really think anything I can say right now will save me...

This is really to everyone, but the best way to do this is to convince everyone else someone else is scum.  That means build a solid case on your top suspect.

[webadict]

Oh, all right then.

I think I've figured where webadict is getting the "Heli is town" thing from, aside from out-of-game PMing. The early-game Heli/breadbocks argument. If Heli was scum why would he have gone after his scumpartner so aggressively? Ergo, Town.

Crown, you described yourself as a reactive player. So why did you never react to any of the aforementioned Heli/breadbocks argument?

I didn't want to get involved in a circle of uselessness

That's a possible defense, but there was plenty of other posting to react to, which you never did. I may be scummy to you, but that's pretty damn scummy to me.

Heli: Well, you still seem to be voting me since I replaced Egg. So I can't really defend myself for how scummy he looked. I might give it a go after work anyway, though.

There's really no need to defend my actions. All that does is save me from doing any work, which I feel I haven't done enough of anyhow, but people let me off for.

But, I do feel Heliman is town unless he is the greatest liar I've ever met, in which case he is probably the new King of the Mafia. It's one of those things that makes someone Town that a scum cannot copy, let alone a newbie scum.

However, Toaster's got it right. Your only defense right now is a good offense, and if you're Town, you better hope you're right, and if you're scum, you better hope you're convincing. Playing defensively only let's us think you're trying to be self-preserving and make sure you live. That's actually not "bad" per-say, but if you provide less offense than defense, there's not a lot to trust from you.

I'm mostly voting for King's behavior, which I realize you cannot answer for, but there are things you can answer for, such as the majority of your argument being that Crown is lurking. I'm probably posting at the same rate Today as he was Yesterday, but you don't seem to consider me scummy, which either means Crown's lack of scumhunting is somehow superior to my voting for you because of the King's behavior (which I would consider scummy at this point, as it is a lack in scumhunting), or you're ignoring me because I'm an IC.

That being said, OrangeBottle:

Your case has some good points, but there are plenty of pointless points that were unnecessary. WIFOYIFOM? How do you figure that he's attempting to misinform the Town with something like that? A stretch.

Uh. Wuba. Please, tell me what good points I have. At this point there isn't a single fucking argument I can see in it.

Ticking people off isn't scumhunting, and trying to pull arguments from their rage is less so. Angry people make stupid mistakes, but scum don't really make those same mistakes. Scum don't need to get angry, except in the same way Town gets angry.

And Heliman was defending breadbock. Jim Groovester was making a legitimate attack on breadbocks, which Heliman took as "newbies be new" and chainsaw defended on that principle.

I'm not going to bother with a wall this time. A paragraph should suffice.

I have to say this is vaguely amusing watching you chase each other in circles.

This quote feels extremely scummy to me. It's the exact same thought I have when I play scum in IRC mafia. I don't care if it's from day 1, this is just too off. This, along with the active lurkiness, blatant bandwagoning, and hypocritical voting logic are just damning.

Vote CrownofFire

But, then you switch off Heliman for Crown, following Simmura for less reasoning than you voted Heliman for.

[Toaster]

I'm going to say it again because it's extremely important.

Not only is the best way to save yourself is to convince everyone else that your target is scum, doing so actually makes you look more like town!  Town's one and only goal is to find scum.  If you show single-minded devotion to that goal, you look like a townie.  Scum imitate this goal- town is genuine in its intention.  That distinction is also a good way to find scum.

Isn't it nice how it all rolls together?

[Simmura McCrea]

Most of my argument being "Crown is lurking" isn't strictly speaking true, it's just that that's most of the argument I'm presenting. The rest of it is that Crown just feels scummy to me. I've no idea what's making me feel like that towards Crown and not webadict, but that's the way it is. It's possible web's scum and hiding it better, while Crown's just kinda scummy, but I can't really find anything against web that feels all that wrong. I'm struggling to throw together something that might hold together, but since reading people and explaining my thoughts are two points I'm not good at, it's not exactly easy. I kinda figured I'd struggle in my first few (dozen?) games.

Okay, reading through from when webadict joined the game, I'm going to try to throw together something resembling a case against him. I don't actually think he's scum, but it's all practice.

You spent Day 2 pointing out the flaws in others' cases, mainly KoE and bread, I think. That might just be you being all IC, but you didn't really do much scumhunting either. You only voted twice, once against KoE due to blatant bandwagoning, and against bread, a little before the end of the day. You said something about having a case against KoE, but forgot it over the night. After that, you put a FoS on him, then voted for him when he didn't reply, just before he asked for a replacement. Then went back to pointing out flaws in arguments, without producing any of your own.

Spoiler: Some quotes to support the first 2 sentences (click to show/hide)

I would at least like to see what the other 4 players who haven't even posted today yet.

But you want me to start questioning people before I get the chance to see peoples reaction to the scumkill? Fine.

Jim, why are you so intent on refusing to accept that I could possibly see a mistake, and then move on from it, rather than trying to force that mistake to be good in some way? I refuse to believe 12 hours of me taking a step back and thinking about what people say will harm the town, as opposed to jumping on somebody's back, and then putting myself in the same spot as I was when I was floundering for something on Heliman?

So, you're dropping Heliman just because I said he was Town, while also not bothering to find any actual evidence? For all you know, I'm wrong or scum.

Sitting around waiting to see what others say is far from being helpful. Why not try to look for a case on someone? Or possibly build one for Heliman. Not that it will matter to me, but at least you'd be useful.

If you want names, I'd say Jim, and Webadict, because it makes us depend on them more, and thus subconsciously more trusting.

Are... you being serious?

You are suspicious of us because we're good players?

Hahahaha. Nice attitude. It also means you've got no information and are basically pulling reasons from your nether regions. It's like, "Who can I lynch with the most bogus reason?"

In fact, you're just attacking anyone that points at you.

So, really, you've got about one post to make a legitimate case.

Supercharazad was being questioned by Toaster before Toaster was killed and Webadict replaced him.

I want you to run that through your head one more time.

There are several reasons why that is wrong, but the very first is that it's WIFOM. You might as well have said that everyone that lynched major_sephiroth was scum as well. Every one of them. Because he was Town.

Second, if I were scum, I would've probably killed Heliman, especially since I know he's Town. Of course, that's WIFOM, so take it for what it's worth.

Third, I'm not Super. Any suspicion from Toaster due to Super is about as meaningful to me as someone out for revenge on me for my ancestor. It means nothing to me, because I didn't do it.

Fourth... Where does Toaster find Super suspicious? You've quoted nothing, but you say Toaster was suspicious of Super. Where? Toaster was suspicious of Heliman as of yesterday (which would clearly make my job easier as scum), and before that, he was voting major_sephiroth. So, somewhere in there, you seem to have fabricated this.

The closest thing I can find is this:

You didn't answer my question.

Says the person who didn't answer mine.

Which is a response to this:

Super:  You getting replaced will hurt the interest of others.  Yes, it's a long D1.  You don't have to pore over every detail for three walls of text a day; a post a day with content is fine if the day is protracted.

What did you mean by IC replacement?

It seems you'd like me to stay, is it because I'm the one that the scum wants to get lynched?

Are you trying to make an attack here?  If so, fine, but it's not clear at all.

So, where, oh where, are you making this up from?

And for that, you'll need to make an actual attack. Especially since your reasoning on breadbocks is basically a bandwagon. Your attack is that he is OMGUSing, which I'm going to say is about the easiest reason to use on him right now without providing anything new.

There we go, guys. Let's start making some real arguments here. It's the most efficient way to scumhunt.

PPE: Oh hey, that argument looks familiar.
PPE2: Now with less pronouns, more names and some quotes, for less confusion.
PPE3: No, I don't need an argument against Toaster, he's dead. Pay attention, Simmura.

[webadict]

Most of my argument being "Crown is lurking" isn't strictly speaking true, it's just that that's most of the argument I'm presenting. The rest of it is that Crown just feels scummy to me. I've no idea what's making me feel like that towards Crown and not webadict, but that's the way it is. It's possible web's scum and hiding it better, while Crown's just kinda scummy, but I can't really find anything against web that feels all that wrong. I'm struggling to throw together something that might hold together, but since reading people and explaining my thoughts are two points I'm not good at, it's not exactly easy. I kinda figured I'd struggle in my first few (dozen?) games.

Okay, reading through from when webadict joined the game, I'm going to try to throw together something resembling a case against him. I don't actually think he's scum, but it's all practice.

You spent Day 2 pointing out the flaws in others' cases, mainly KoE and bread, I think. That might just be you being all IC, but you didn't really do much scumhunting either. You only voted twice, once against KoE due to blatant bandwagoning, and against bread, a little before the end of the day. You said something about having a case against KoE, but forgot it over the night. After that, you put a FoS on him, then voted for him when he didn't reply, just before he asked for a replacement. Then went back to pointing out flaws in arguments, without producing any of your own.

You need to explain the quotes. I took them out because you didn't explain their significance, so they just sat there.

Plus, your argument falls pretty flat in that I am an experienced player. I DO know how to hide being scum better, just from simple experience, and therefore, you need to pay closer attention to my actions, and judge me more harshly. I'll even give you a little hint that it's a way to townhunt, but I don't think that needs to be discussed right now.

You've got the overall gist of making arguments, but that doesn't really help you right now since this argument is for someone you don't think is scum. I'd consider making your case more persuasive, since you have a gut feeling something is wrong. Now, which posts make that gut feeling happen? Which words? How does that make your target scum?

Obviously your goal is to make an attack so persuasive that we have to vote with you and not against you. You've really only got one more shot to do it or you're going to get lynched.

[lordnincompoop]

I was kinda hoping for Simmura to post again before I'd end the day, but ah well.

Day 3 Has Ended!
Simmura McCrea has been Lynched!
He was Town.

Votecount:
Heliman - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
Orangebottle - 0 -
CrownofFire - 2 - Orangebottle, Simmura McCrea
Simmura McCrea - 3 - webadict, Heliman, CrownofFire

Not Voting - 0 -
No Lynch  - 0 -

Extend  - 0-
Shorten  - 0 -


The day draws yet again to a close, and the lynch is chosen. You surround him, marching to the beat of a morbid drum as you hammer your makeshift spears into the ground.

The group thinks for itself, they say. Once you are part of one, the collective takes over, and you are lost within it. Now, as you form the mob, there is no emotion but rage, there is no cause but murder, no morals but those of the twisted hivemind; relentless, hedonistic, instictual. The hive serves only itself and its cruel whims. Slowly, you lift your spears, and the drumming ceases.

Simmura McCrea, tonight's chosen prey, backs onto a wall crouching like a cornered deer in the hunt, wide-eyed and shaking. His eyes flit from impassive face to face, and scrambles for something to hold in the merciless, smooth rock.

The mob stands at attention as Heliman, head high and stepping lightly, moves through the crowd and stops just in front of Simmura.

"So, amico mio. Any last words before we send you off?"

"You dogs! You know I'm the wrong person! Just look at CrownofFire! Why do you think he's been silent this whole time, eh? How are you going to explain that?"

"He is someone we can trust. He is a part of this family."

Heliman raises his spear and shoves it firmly into Simmura's foot, who gives a yelp and a gasp, and falls onto Heli's shoulder for support. Leaning in, he whispers his final words into the victim's ear:

"You, however, are not."

He nods at the others as he leaves. Their spears are thrust at once with a thud, and are twisted out. Simmura stumbles onto the ground, now limp and pale, staining the ground red.

Searching the body turns up nothing, however. No badges or headsets like the previous, and an examination of the camp shows the same results. As the unfortunate implication of this dawns upon the few left to see the still, inky-black night, quiet lamentations are held. The chances of survival were lessening with each day, and the visions they were experiencing with increasing intensity were distressing. The Cosca felt close by, and yet so far away. And they longed.



Simmura McCrea has been lynched. He was Town.

Night 3 has begun!
Scum & power roles, send in your night actions.

The Night will end Tuesday, 8PM GMT.

[lordnincompoop]

Important scholarship application delayed the formation of this post.

Day 4 Has Begun!
Heliman has been Nightkilled!
He was Town.
LYLO has begun! Do or die!

Votecount:
webadict - 0 -
Orangebottle - 0 -
CrownofFire - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 - webadict, Orangebottle, CrownofFire
No Lynch  - 0 -

Extend  - 0 -
Shorten  - 0 -


You awaken for the last day, now fully lucid and yourselves. Be under no illusions; this is you, as you were, in your murderous state, and amongst yourselves lies an agent, undercover and cowering in fear.

He has executed another this past night: Heliman. He lies in the forest, a bloodied corpse, shattered and weak. In his stead, you shall find freedom, sweet freedom. You shall escape this godforsaken island, this cruel and yet fully deserved carneval of lives and lies. You witness before you a red sunrise, and in its fiery orange light there will be no mercy, no restraint, no respite.

For this is the last. For if you do not find your captor, all will be over.

And not a single tear will be shed.


Heliman has been nightkilled. He was Town.


Welcome to LYLO!

This is the final day of the game. Extra participation will be expected of you, and don't trust anyone, especially those you have trusted before!



The Day will end Thursday, 11PM GMT.

You need 2 to Extend and 2 to Shorten.

[Simmura McCrea]

I believe the standard parlance for this post would be "Bah".

I'd give an excuse for not posting again yesterday, but that's all it'd be: an excuse. I'll try again next time, might even do better then. Gonna keep watching though. All zombie-like. Good luck, all.

[Heliman]

I should have seen this coming the whole ti-!
*is brained to death*
Bah.