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[breadbocks]

You're too kind. I'm about 3/4 done now. I just need to assemble the quotes, and bb-code ify it. I should have it done before I get to sleep in the morning.

[webadict]

A) you come into the game trying to control the town with the flimsy excuse of "Im an IC. I'm teaching you". This is not a good thing. Never. Under any circumstances. Ever!
Either you are scum; explanation not needed
Or you are a human town; I.e. Able to be blindsided.

I don't think he's ever said that his IC status should be a reason to vote with him. That's a lie right there. I believe his goal is to teach you, and no where in there is he forcing you to do what he says. If anything, I've forced you to do more by making you make a case. Wanna vote me too?

B) your attitude: you crash around like a bull in a pen trying to "get a 'subconscious and unfiltered'  reaction". I have no problems with this in an SE+only game. But in a game where many of the players have never played the game, all you achieve is a panicked response. Which only serves to create a intrapersonal barrier between the town and your target. Which is also bad. Even if you are doing it for the right reasons. You are only giving the scum something to latch onto. I highly doubt that an experienced player could miss this.

And your entire case was leeched from Heliman, which would make YOU one of the players that is latching onto a case. You seemed to have no problem with it before Heliman voted for Jim.

Which leads to my next point.
You say you have " a year and a half" of playing under your belt? I have over 2. So fliping what? Stop trying to make yourself seem infallible. You are not (nor is anyone). You also say that talent is nothing compared to experience. I beg to differ. I know of numerous IRC reasons why a noob player in their first game could be better than you. Or me. Or anyone. To you I now ask. Tell me If you will. Your:

True age
Occupation
Qualifications relevant to Mafia (IRC)

I have three years of mafia experience. Do you want to get into this? His job and my job are to teach you how to play the game. He teaches it through aggression. It is his way. I hate it too, but there's nothing scummy about it. That would be hypocritical of me to call his play style any more scummy than my play style, especially since I have lied, misdirected, buddied, defended, and backstabbed as Town.

There is a reason why I am King of the Mafia. It's not because I am infallible. We are all prone to our mistakes and our flaws. It is because, even if my hands are tied, I will fight. If I could do it alone as Town, I would. I can kill an entire scumteam off on my own in some cases.

So, if you want someone that flaunts his experience, why not lynch me? Or yourself? Clearly, you think you know better. Well, you don't.

And explain why these obviously make you any better a player than my dog.

Because your dog can't type, doesn't think complex thoughts, drools everywhere, and is a dog. He also poops outside and eats garbage in a bowl.

Explain why you have any right to think your play style is better than anyone else? In what way is aggression toward a target unwarranted? I think that, if you're planning on using that line of thinking, you better explain how it makes him scum. All you're saying is that beginner's get flustered by it, but really, that's a defense for breadbocks, not a scum tell on Jim.

I wasn't being serious. Of course I knew he didn't get muted just to avoid my question. I was being a dick to provoke him into responding sooner rather than later.

Who do you suspect? Are you fully caught up on the thread now?

If people are going to take everything literally, then we're going to have actual murders occurring.


Sorry it took me this long to post. I was playing chess. They finally got the board outside! I got to play the only real challenging kid on this campus... MYSELF! Nah, that'd be silly. It was my evil twin.

[breadbocks]

Poof. Magic. No thanks to you, Pokemon Black and DF adventure mode. :glare:


Since this post is a case on Jim, we'll focus on those 40 posts he made. At a glance, it should seem like he's been being the most useful. After all, he's made the most posts by a good margin. However, how many of them have been actually useful? Jim, you so conveniently just provided me with the proper term. Active lurking.  Now, let me break down those forty posts even further. This time, into posts with him scumhunting, posts teaching, and useless posts.
First, the pool of posts.  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40
So, because I feel a compulsion to categorize these,

• Teaching: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 17, 20, 22, 24, 35,
• Useless:   12, 13, 14, 16, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 33
• Scumhunting/Pressuring: 7, 8, 15, 18, 19, 23, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34,

Now, I know I hear you saying “What use is any of this?” Well, pay close attention to the numbers’ position. Note how for every posts in which he actually scumhunted, he had a post which when looked at on its own is undeniably active lurking. Also, take note of how he didn’t get down to doing much of anything scumhunting wise until more than 2 days in the game. And he says my wish of waiting for everyone to post in D2 was passive. Well what do you say to the fact you did nothing but tell people what to do for what was a fair part of D1? Then take note of 23, and how he admits to passivity. As the day ends, he spends the time ranting about WIFOM, how were incorrectly using the term, and how it should be ignore. Then what is the thing that sets him off on D2? How I unintentionally said WIFOM in stating my thoughts, and he then ignores his own advise and pays attention to it. Hurp derp busted. So tell me now. How do you plan on defending yourself against this?
(Note:  Due to the fact the numbering got jumbled up, I got lost after 35, never the less, that’s still a large enough sample to convict on. I can’t delay posting this any longer, because that will give Jim a prosthetic leg to stand on in his silly little argument against me.)

[webadict]

Now, I know I hear you saying “What use is any of this?” Well, pay close attention to the numbers’ position. Note how for every posts in which he actually scumhunted, he had a post which when looked at on its own is undeniably active lurking. Also, take note of how he didn’t get down to doing much of anything scumhunting wise until more than 2 days in the game.

What. Let's forget that we're playing the Number 23 here and point out the obvious hole in your argument: Scumhunting versus RVS wouldn't start until later in the game, accounting for that two days.

I'm assuming this, since you also included no quotes. And I don't feel like searching for what you consider scumhunting and what you consider useless, especially since some posts fall in both?

[The King of Eggs]

Way to blatantly ignore half my post webadict
I would explain but seeing as you have quoted your own mistakes I shall let you explain to the town exactly why you turned my rather self destructive post, into a prime example arrogance.

[Jim Groovester]

So tell me now. How do you plan on defending yourself against this?

Easily.

Firstly, you don't know what active lurking is. If I were active lurking I'd be doing what you were doing up until just now. Posting, but contentlessly. Assuring everyone I was going to make a decent post eventually. It's completely impossible for me to make useful contributions but active lurk every other post because the two are mutually exclusive to each other.

Secondly, the WIFOM contradicion you accuse me of is completely wrong. I told everybody to ignore WIFOM, because watching everybody moronically try to out think each other was an exceptionally painful display of beginner's incompetence. I also told everybody to stop fucking doing it. So what do you do during Day 2? WIFOM, against my advice. It's my job to tell you when you're wrong, and you were wrong. Instructing new players takes much higher priority than rigidly following the letter of my advice, which is something that should be obvious. I seriously can't believe you suggested I'm scum for doing my job as an IC.

Thirdly, you should pretty much just get rid of the useless category. I have no useless posts.

Fourthly, you're creatively misinterpreting events. During Day 1, I was instructing people, yes, but I was also waiting for people to respond to my proddings. People like you. Further, your WIFOM wasn't what set me off, it was your completely passive Day 2 opener. How you wanted to wait around for suspicions to fall into your lap by waiting for everyone else to post. The WIFOM was a symptom of the problem that you didn't (and still don't) have a case for voting me.

Fifthly, screaming "NUH UH YOU DID IT TOO" doesn't absolve you of any of your scumminess. I mean, seriously. You've taken everything I've accused you of, and tried to find an example from my play narrowly related to compare it to, and make some sort of equivalence to it. That's not a defense for your scumminess. That's not a defense at all.

In totality, you're completely disingenuous.

Your case sucks. Go hang.

Way to blatantly ignore half my post webadict
I would explain but seeing as you have quoted your own mistakes I shall let you explain to the town exactly why you turned my rather self destructive post, into a prime example arrogance.

But WUBA's not going to do that so you're going to have to do it yourself.

Heliman, I want to know if you honestly thought I was being serious when I said breadbocks got muted to avoid me.

[webadict]

Way to blatantly ignore half my post webadict
I would explain but seeing as you have quoted your own mistakes I shall let you explain to the town exactly why you turned my rather self destructive post, into a prime example arrogance.

But WUBA's not going to do that so you're going to have to do it yourself.

I'm going to point out the things he's doing wrong, since that's my job. Not doing so would be disastrous.

Way to blatantly ignore half my post webadict
I would explain but seeing as you have quoted your own mistakes I shall let you explain to the town exactly why you turned my rather self destructive post, into a prime example arrogance.

I did it because the whole point is that being arrogant doesn't make you scum. Being experienced doesn't make you scum. Being aggressive doesn't make you scum. It's doing things that show you are scum. You haven't proven that his being aggressive makes him scum.

Your case was leeched from Heliman, and you successfully added how somehow being aggressive is a scumtell. It's not. At least, not the way you seem to think it is.

You seemed to think his being an IC makes you scum. Well, obviously it makes me scum too, doesn't it? Seeing as how I've been telling you guys what would be a good way to play, you'd have to say that too, wouldn't you? Clearly, I'm shoving my personal agenda at you, what with my experience and know-how. Wanna know what's a REALLY good idea? Lynching yourself! Dur dur dur, do it cuz I is smrt.

Point out WHERE Jim says to do things because he's an IC.

Let's see where you seem to think I misunderstood point B... Oh right. We should treat beginner's differently because they're beginner's. That's about as inane as saying, "I'll go easy on you." I don't want people to go easy on me, and if they do, I don't want to be told that. I think you have to look for different things in newer players. That's the case you should be making. You're not. You're saying that Jim is treating breadbocks unfairly, yet he treated major_sephiroth the same way, and he treats EVERYONE the same way, so why is it only now you have a problem with it?

What did I seemingly miss in your post to Jim? Clearly, I should've answered the whole thing, since it wasn't directed at me. Hmm. My bad. I'll remember to answer everything all of the time.

[ECrownofFire]

If I'm correct, the day is ending in... 17 hours? Should be enough time, right? (By the way, in the announcement for the start of Day 2, it says Toaster was lynched, that should be NKed) (Also, I like that reference in that flavor)

Right, before I get started here, my internet's going to be fairly limited for the next week. Internet's expensive in Disney World, and I'm flying down there tomorrow. I can probably get it for one or two 24-hour periods while I'm there, which would both be within the next day assuming there's no extension, which would work out just fine. I can look into other options, but that's probably it. I'll be busy in the actual parks for most of the time, but I'll try to post as much as I can. If all this is too much hassle for you, just replace me.

Also, webadict is an egotistical, arrogant bastard, and I really like that.

Right, now then, breadbocks, you seem to be in the interesting situation of accusing the (remaining) IC of well... doing his job, I suppose. He's supposed to making those little "useless" posts. Each and every post you have listed as "useless" has some kind of point to it (except 16, but that was just fucking around). 12 is clarifying because Heliman was being stupid. 13 was a simple acronym help, it's not SUPPOSED to be helpful to the game. 14 was answering a question, so I don't see anything wrong with that. 16 was explained already. 21 was pointing out a useless thing that YOU posted. 23 was pushing you to explain yourself (teaching, right?). 24 was simply answering a question again. 25, 26, AND 27 were trying to get you to post, but you were muted if I'm remembering correctly. So they were useless in a way, but that wasn't due to him, now was it? (And frankly, you should have known better than to get muted for that) 33 was kind of silly, but not exactly pointless, he was trying to pressure you.

Look, the point is, all I'm seeing from you is this massive OMGUS, because he's been after you a lot. This is kind of ridiculous now, we have two separate people going after the only IC now, and how the other just was killed last night. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? Makes me want to toss a vote on breadbocks. Now please don't let this day end in a no-lynch, because I'm probably only going to be able to post one more time before the day ends.

But now Heliman, that's an interesting case. I think that in this post, he was quick to jump to say that he wasn't defending breadbocks, when no such accusation by Jim was given. And other than that post, he's been fairly quiet this day, don't you think?

[webadict]

I'll Extend to make sure I don't miss out, but since I'm not sure I'll make it back in time, I'm switching my vote to breadbocks.

See ya.

[breadbocks]

I suppose the only thing for me to request at this point is Extension.

Well, Jim, since you are such a master of mafia, how should I go about persecuting you?

[Orangebottle]

So, Breadbocks, why are you being so extremely overdefensive?

You never even acknowledged my question, mind you.
Breadbocks. Stop giving us useless shit information and answer me.

BREADBOCKS
How do I get your attention? Do I have to put your name in massive bolded allcaps to get you to even look at that?

[Heliman]

My cable modem decided to explode last night.

Heliman, I want to know if you honestly thought I was being serious when I said breadbocks got muted to avoid me.

Yes, but that doesn't matter, the point is that YOU wanted to be thought serious by breadbocks.

Depending on the flip tonight, I'll be continuing this tomarrow.

I'm Scumhunting too, by making bullshit accusations that do absolutely no in depth analysis of my target's posts! I think I can make Jim look guilty by listing all of his posts in order and telling you all what I think of them from a general standpoint!

*Headdesk*
*Headdesk*
*Headdesk*

Breadbocks you are doing the worst scumhunting I've seen so far. This is just... total bullshit in every way ever, I could barely finish reading all of it. A town wouldn't be so desperate to hunt like this.
Unvote
vote Breadbocks.

[Jim Groovester]

I suppose the only thing for me to request at this point is Extension.

Well, Jim, since you are such a master of mafia, how should I go about persecuting you?

You can't! I'm just that good.

But I'll tell you anyway.

First, though, you have a much more critical problem than being unable to effectively convince everyone that your target is scum: You're not looking for scum. You basically just admitted that you're more interested in pushing through a lynch on me than you are at finding out whether I am scum or not. That's bad, and scummy, and you should be rightfully lynched for it. Until you start looking like you're scumhunting you'll be lynched very frequently.

The best ways (in my opinion, I'll admit that I'm sort of pulling this out of my ass) to push through a lynch of an experienced player is by using their experience against them and use their meta against them. Experienced players, the argument goes, are much more skilled than others and thus have much more regular and refined play, and therefore any mistakes they make are much more severe compared to everybody else. Thus, since it's likely that the experienced player won't make a mistake again, he should be held accountable for the mistake he did make and be lynched for it.

The meta argument is much simpler, and usually more effective. If you can successfully argue that something seems off or divergent from a player's normal style of play, then it's easy to argue that the cause for this divergence is that the player is scum.

Unfortunately for you, you can't lynch me for mistakes if I never make them, and you don't know my meta well enough to make any convincing argument on that. Were I you, I'd be trying to play up the post where I admitted to playing somewhat passively, and keep stressing that over and over again as evidence of my well-concealed scumminess.

But since you asked me about it you basically don't have a snowball's chance in hell of successfully pulling it off in this game. Maybe next time, though next time I would hope you would only try to lynch me if you thought I was scum instead of marking me for death just because.

I'm Scumhunting too, by making bullshit accusations that do absolutely no in depth analysis of my target's posts! I think I can make Jim look guilty by listing all of his posts in order and telling you all what I think of them from a general standpoint!

He doesn't have to go in depth, he just has to be clear. If he can point out where I am scummy, why what I did was scummy, and be clear about it, that's all the case he needs to make.

He needs to work on that.

Heliman, I want to know if you honestly thought I was being serious when I said breadbocks got muted to avoid me.

Yes, but that doesn't matter, the point is that YOU wanted to be thought serious by breadbocks.

No, I didn't want him to think I was serious. I wanted to piss him off.

You're putting words into my mouth, scumbucket.

Breadbocks you are doing the worst scumhunting I've seen so far. This is just... total bullshit in every way ever, I could barely finish reading all of it. A town wouldn't be so desperate to hunt like this.
Unvote
vote Breadbocks.

This looks like a bus. Funny how you bailed off the Jim Groovester train as soon as it lost steam.

Withdraw extension. I don't think it's needed anymore.

[lordnincompoop]

I just realised that since it's 7 players, the amount to extend is 2 and shorten is 4. Sorry for any confusion.


It's close to night, and sky is darkening. The world feels like a dangerous place, now that strange sounds and animal noises surround them, and the only bright light for miles is the dying glow of the campfire. Tempers are seething, and it seems to be drawing closer to another murder. Heads shake, eyes roll and brows furrow as people listen to and rebuke breadbocks' increasingly nervous and inane arguments.

Soon, weapons would be lifted. Soon, blood would be spilt.


Votecount:
Heliman - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
Orangebottle - 0 -
Breadbocks - 5 - Jim Groovester, Orangebottle, CrownofFire, webadict, Heliman
CrownofFire - 0 -
The King of Eggs - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 2 - breadbocks, The King of Eggs

Not Voting - 0 -
No Lynch  - 0 -

Extend  - 2 - Webadict, breadbocks
Shorten  - 0 -

In its current state, the day will end with a Breadbocks Lynch.


With 2 for extension out of 2 needed, the day has been extended to Friday, 8PM GMT.

You need 2 to Extend and 4 to Shorten.

[Heliman]

Breadbocks you are doing the worst scumhunting I've seen so far. This is just... total bullshit in every way ever, I could barely finish reading all of it. A town wouldn't be so desperate to hunt like this.
Unvote
vote Breadbocks.

This looks like a bus. Funny how you bailed off the Jim Groovester train as soon as it lost steam.
[/quote]
Funny, because I don't remember ever supporting breadbocks, or bailing off you. Breadbocks scummier than you are, even when accounting for the difference in experience.