I've been doing things.
Heliman:
He does use a little wifyiom on me. This is where you're partially correct.
It's WIFOYIFOM, lol man you're horrible at this acronym business.
I may not have callout out the caps lock specifically - I did say he looked suspicious and that I wanted him to answer everyones questions.
Really? I can't seem to find it. Where did you ask him to answer everyone's questions, exactly? Perhaps it was in scumchat? >:I
If I were scum, I'd buddy you to cause - exactly what's happening. I'd only go for it if I'm willing to sacrifice myself, but both Toaster and Jim are saying you're scummy by association to me. If I were scum and flipped as such - they'd pressure you. And with the two IC's pressuring you, the other beginners would trust them, and pressure you as well.
Seph, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID.
If he's scum trying to make me look scummy for a lynching by being overprotective, then he's only going to get himself lynched first, and if he flips scum it wouldn't matter if I get lynched the next night or not, because it would ultimately pro-town.
My quote even responded to your idle threat.
My intention was not to protect you from bread, but to poke holes in his arguement. As I say earlier in this post, I've been suspicious of bread for a while too, so I'm going to make sure any case he uses against anyone is damn sound before I consider listening to it.
from what I've seen, as far as the Players at large are concerned, Bread still has no argument. In fact, if he actually had any relatively legitimate accusations towards me, I myself would have already beaten them down. I haven't, mostly because with every accusation so far he seems to dig himself into a grave. I know that if he's town may be a bad call by me, but either way he should learn to keep the rest of the players in mind when he hunts. Keep in mind that pride is a weakness, breadbocks!
It appears that I will be leaving tomorrow for a couple of weeks. Obviously this means that I won't be able to finish this game. You should probably put up a second replacement notice, but I'll still be able to stick around for another day or so. Sorry everyone, this was completely unexpected and I didn't know about this until last night.
ANOTHER ONE?
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Well at least it's the first day. Not that finding someone to brave all these posts will be easy, mind.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of acronyms.
Here:
The King of Eggs:IN ORDER TO SAVE ON QUOTE TAGS MY COMMENTS ARE GREEN
The King of Eggs, it could just be your different style of play, but you come off as heartless and overly defensive to me. I mean WANTING a scumbuddy you can bus? Wouldn't you much prefer a scumbuddy who's just skilled? I SUFFER FROM PARRANOIR, I TRUST NO ONE NOT TO BUS ME FIRST.
So. You like questions?
(These are directed at The King of Eggs)
If you were a cop, who would you investigate, based on the day so far? JIM, HE IS A POWERFUL TOWN ALLY OR A POWERFUL MAFIA MEMBER, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHICH
If you were a vigilante, (even though there can't be one), who would you kill? I WOULD TARGET JIM WITH THIS POWER ROLE ALSO, AS IF I CAN NOT BE SURE OF HIS ALLIGENCE THEN I CAN NOT CO-EXIST WITH HIM. OF COURSE VIG USSUALLY DON'T KILL N1, AND I FOLLOW THAT PRACTISE
Also, if you could elaborate on this:basically i would pick someone i could if i needed to yes
I MEAN THAT I WOULD CHOOSE SOMEONE I COULD USE AS A DISTRACTION QUICKLY IF NEEDED
On to the fun part. Firstly: I'm paranoid too, mostly. And I wouldn't bus my scumbuddy unless they were going down anyway and/or useless. Pre-emptive bussing wouldn't help.
Your cop target: Not bad. I did that one game - investigate the IC. It would've helped if I wasn't NK'd.
Your vig target: You'd risk the fact he was town? I thought you were paranoid. Also - you don't need to follow traditional practice. If I had a scumpick, I know I'd hit them N1.
Your elaboration: That isn't too scummy, but you are heartless.
My vote stays off you for now. The FoS stays on.
And to you guys who are worried about times: weekends count for 0 hours guys!
Your next point: I was answering your question wasn't I? I can't be assed at this point to look back further.
Also on that: Idle threat? Jeez you're an idiot.
Next point: Not much to add.
Hopping in since there isn't much to say anymore:
Vote major_sephiroth, long overdue, due to me acting like a nondecisive pansy in front of an IC.
Eh, I've said before your vote is sound. I was kinda wondering why you unvoted anyway.
Yeah, but I was hoping at THE VERY LEAST we would do better than the players from the last game did, but nope. Same Inertia, and a ludicrously long Day 1. SOAB.
Sephiroth hasn't posted in 24 hours either.
I was doing things. Plus, everytime I post I have to build a wall of text, so I'll look over the thread and not post occasionally.
Toaster:
Major:
Okay. In order:
An example: Person A attempts to convince everyone he's town. He is. Person B is also town - but doesn't buy his story and continues to press him. The scum NK Person B. They then cry out: "Person A's only opposition was NK'd! Mighty suspicious!" And they continue to get person A lynched. Then all that went against him can just say that they were tricked by the scum.
Also you're the IC, so if this example is unrealistic, say so.
Gotcha. The problem is that's using terrible WIFOM logic, and I'd be all over the person trying to push that crap. It's realistic, but it's scummy to try something like that.
Onto question:
Well, it's not a clear yes or no, it's situational. The townie could do this to use WIFOM on the mafia - and (possibly) buy him another day of scumhunting, assuming he's not lynched. Alternatively, if the townie is the center of a bandwagon, he could do this to convince the town to lynch someone else, as he may be NK'd. If he IS NK'd, anyone who was quick to unvote looks suspicious, and if not, he looks suspicious and argh I could write 10 pages on this and not get anywhere.
I meant more in the context of "I am the most dangerous scum hunter and you should remove me." In any case, fair enough answer.
Did you happen to notice that I said: "Unless Heliman continues to be scummy" And that I didn't vote him until a while after the 24 hours because Heliman was looking scummy? He was one of my other scumpicks - I just progressed to the next one after me pressure on Heliman didn't get anywhere. It was mostly a case of "Get in here or there will be consequences!"
Yes, I noticed. It made the case worse. As written, you can stay on Heliman if he keeps votes or move on to BD if he doesn't.
It's not "Oh I'll look bad if I vote him", it's "Damn, no evidence. Better not cast a vote."
Also, mind pointing out exactly where I say self-preservation is higher than scum?
Sure.
Onto the bad part. Most of my attack was based on you saying you're a goldmine of WIFOM - and that's apparently a misinterpretation. An attack without base is crap - and I think you've had enough pressure from me. I think you're scum, but until I can convince the town of that, Unvote. You've still got my FoS to keep you company though, Heliman. To clarify - I think he's scum - I just have no evidence, and if I push my reasoning further, it's going to hurt me, not him. If you want to attack him, by all means - go for it. Just don't quote me word for word.
--SNIP--
PRE-POST EDIT: I feel I should elaborate on my mindgame. I thought TKoE was scum. Overreacting and whatnot - but I didn't want to vote him on that, as it'd be a blatant bandwagon. I knew I could convince someone to vote him with enough questions, and I happened to get Heli with my first one. So Heli, I wasn't as sheepish as you thought.
See the underlined bits. You don't say it directly, but it's strongly implicit. In the first paragraph, you're backing off someone you say is scum because you don't have evidence. The correct move is to press him for that evidence. You shouldn't care if pressing an attack makes you look bad (hint- it won't if it's based on honest suspicion). In the second, same deal: Town has no reason to not vote someone they think is scum. If he's scum, vote him and explain why.
I had sparse articulate reasons but they were based on a mis-interpretation. Voting without it would be a bandwagon.
Then get those reasons.
For my response to bread, I typed up what I thought on each post. I didn't see anything solid in there - it wouldn't matter if it was Heliman or not, I made and stated my opinion on his arguements, not on who they're against.
On your second linked post, I have a habit of just adding my two cents in. See later in that post for an example, and earlier for a different one.
Defending others is generally a bad habit. If you want someone else to be voted, convince people by bringing your case against your target, not by tearing down someone's argument against another person.
I make myself look SO SCUMMY with my scum logic expeditions but here's another one:
You're right there.
If I were scum, I'd buddy you to cause - exactly what's happening. I'd only go for it if I'm willing to sacrifice myself, but both Toaster and Jim are saying you're scummy by association to me. If I were scum and flipped as such - they'd pressure you. And with the two IC's pressuring you, the other beginners would trust them, and pressure you as well.
This is WIFOM, pure and simple. Just don't post things like this- they don't do anyone any good.
First point: Eh. Glad I made a realistic situation.
Third point: Yeah yeah, I look scummy. In this case - there's no ulterior motive. It is what's there and only what's there.
Fourth point: Yeah I see what you're getting at. And you're right - I care about surviving until the end, because I'm yet to do that in Mafia. But I've also been scumhunting. Pushing bread after that statement - Heliman before it. Survival is a secondary objective for me. Finding scum is the natural primary.
Fifth point: Yeah, I'm not an omnipotent scumhunter Toaster. If there are no reasons I can see, then I have no reasons. I went through Heli's posts a few times and the only thing I could find was the TvTropes link fiasco.
Sixth point: I didn't like bread's arguement so I destroyed it - no intention to defend, and he was my target.
Seventh/Eighth point: I was trying to be active in conversation, but sure. No more scumlogic expeditions.
Superchar: (No, I will not type your whole name because you mis-spelt Charizard.)
unvote.Sorry, I had a rather large backlog of homework, I still have a bit to do, but sorry for not posting :/
My current scumpicks are:
major_sephiroth,
I think you're scum, but until I can convince the town of that, Unvote.
I think a kick was just delivered to my brain, and I just lost about 50 IQ, just from reading that >.<
You are meant to PRESS people! You don't give up on someone because the rest of the town doesn't believe you, you PRESS THEM.
If I were scum, I'd buddy you to cause - exactly what's happening. I'd only go for it if I'm willing to sacrifice myself, but both Toaster and Jim are saying you're scummy by association to me. If I were scum and flipped as such - they'd pressure you. And with the two IC's pressuring you, the other beginners would trust them, and pressure you as well.
Wine.
Okay. In order:
An example: Person A attempts to convince everyone he's town. He is. Person B is also town - but doesn't buy his story and continues to press him. The scum NK Person B. They then cry out: "Person A's only opposition was NK'd! Mighty suspicious!" And they continue to get person A lynched. Then all that went against him can just say that they were tricked by the scum.
Also you're the IC, so if this example is unrealistic, say so.
Wine.
I thought TKoE was scum. Overreacting and whatnot - but I didn't want to vote him on that, as it'd be a blatant bandwagon
Passive. It's not a blatant bandwagon, so long as you have a reason.
My second scumpick:
Crownoffire, for NOT POSTING (yes, I know I'm one to talk, but still.), he's barely doing anything :/
Now, I dropped Bread, because a small hunch isn't exactly evidence.
Major_Sephiroth, why is that you seem to be trying to pump wine into our mouthes with a large, high pressure fire hose?
First, stop hitting enter/return so much.
Your first point:
Yes, and I HAVE PRESSED PEOPLE. That sentence is NOT a travesty to mafia. I didn't believe myself at that point. Still don't.
Second point: "Wine." Lovely description. Note my first words in that: "If I were scum". The scum use Wine - thus that quote is full. There's also the larger wine of you calling me scum because you think I'm doing that. Yeah. It's wine. Passing it off as nothing is more wine. Note Heli's response and rebuttal to that. It would work out in the towns favour at the end. So, even if that WAS what I was doing, the town has nothing to worry about.
Third: Did you read Toaster's post about it? It's another example that involves scum, so it involves scummy logic, and some wine for good measure. It's what COULD happen. Little chance of it in this game though.
Fourth: Will you please READ ALL MY POSTS. I have said that I didn't have much evidence against TKoE, so I got Heliman to get it. I didn't have enough of a reason to vote him, so I didn't.
Fifth: Crown's been posting. Significantly more than you.
Your final line:
Did you have to fancy it up? I've bolded the spelling mistakes. And I KNOW I look scummy, I have said that. You think I'm scummy because I think about what the scum would do, and what I would do as scum. You can't beat what you don't understand. Hell, I don't even understand it that much.
If I'm missing any questions: Screw you and ask again.