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[Supercharazad]

Alright, Jim gave a good answer, Unvote.


Crown, If you were scum and had an opportunity to bus your partner in the lategame (it will be MyLo if the next lynchee is town), when he was asking you not to, because he wants to be a team until the end, would you bus him to gain more credibility?

[Jim Groovester]

Supercharazad, asking lots of hypothetical questions are nice, but are you narrowing down your list of suspects any?

Jim: I was talking about Heli's defense of himself in particular.

So you want me to tell you if I think you're on the right track or not?

If I thought you were on to anything I would be voting Heliman. But right now I have no idea what the hell the arguments are on either side.

Why do you think Heliman is suspicious, by the way?

[ECrownofFire]

Alright, Jim gave a good answer, Unvote.


Crown, If you were scum and had an opportunity to bus your partner in the lategame (it will be MyLo if the next lynchee is town), when he was asking you not to, because he wants to be a team until the end, would you bus him to gain more credibility?

It depends on the current situation. If I wasn't in any danger of being voted, then I wouldn't see any reason to. But I'm assuming that I would need to in this situation, so yes, I would. There's really no reason to keep a team completely together, regardless if you're Town or scum. I mean, it certainly helps to have more of your team alive, but there is no "flawless victory" in Mafia.

[major_sephiroth]

You could almost say that I'm a Mind Game Ship when it comes to my hunting.

Hmmm - this wine tastes funny. You just admitted to being a goldmine of WIFOM

Lol, no, I'm not admitting to WIFOM, I'm just pissing Breadbocks off because he hates obscure Tv Tropes links.

First off, so sorry that I took a post literally. I thought that's what we do here.

Also, why do you need me to be pissed off? So that in my rage I would make a mistake in my persecution of you, giving you scum the chance to pounce on me? Not a chance.

Easy answer, an angry scum gives scumtells more often. It can be used as nothing but protown scumhunting, mostly because of all the RAEGVOTES (so very similar to your vote) that it causes.

In all honesty I haven't even been doing any mindgames, I'm not nearly good enough to put thoughts in your head. Like the Conspiracy theorists before you, you just got it in your head that I am, which, by the way, is hilarious. Even if you don't believe this, look at it this way: "mindgames," (excluding cyclical thinking mindgames like WIFOM,) are more or less the basis of the questioning process we've been doing for the last several pages, the good ones are set up to make the answerer give a response that can be used against them later, like a little magic bullet.

Speaking of magic bullets.

Hmmm - this wine tastes funny. You just admitted to being a goldmine of WIFOM

Have ever heard of wifoyifom before? probably not, It's quite a long abbreviation, it roughly translates to "Wine in front of you in front of me." It's quite the magic little phrase. As it refers to a situation where a scum tries to push WIFOM on players in order to slot them for lynching.
In that link, and in my post, there was absolutely no admittance of WIFOM in any way whatsoever. Which means You, clever little f*cking scum you, are not only blatantly misinterpreting my post, but also have been using my wonderful little abbbreviation here.

Bread, and everyone, really. I urge you to look at his response: It's another mindgame. Would a townie have a reason to play mindgames on everyone?

And by god you are using wifoyifom to it's fullest, seeing as you're trying to induce the rest of the town to lynch me.
Vote major_sephiroth, nice try at driving the bandwagon, I'm happy I was able to jeer you into it.

Well. I'll say the little things first:
The last quote you have on me was supposed to get people to look at you and decide by themselves - if someone voted you for my reasons alone, I'd FoS them, at the very least.

Now - it seems I misinterpreted my main evidence post here Heliman. I still think you're scum, but there's no solid case.
Onto your mindgames thing. It's easy. I mean, I got you to vote for TKoE, didn't I? And just by using the word 'turning' in your earlier post, Bread seems to betray BD by pressuring him. That's the only one I can spot at the moment.

Onto the bad part. Most of my attack was based on you saying you're a goldmine of WIFOM - and that's apparently a misinterpretation. An attack without base is crap - and I think you've had enough pressure from me. I think you're scum, but until I can convince the town of that, Unvote. You've still got my FoS to keep you company though, Heliman. To clarify - I think he's scum - I just have no evidence, and if I push my reasoning further, it's going to hurt me, not him. If you want to attack him, by all means - go for it. Just don't quote me word for word.

Onto Bread:

As an SE, I'm entitled to say getting people pissed so they drop scumtells is a bad idea, because anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed. Only scum would do it because they need a townie to get lynched for the day. Every time you try to defend yourself, you seem scummier and scummier. This is correct ICs, no?

Also, I don't think you understand WIFOM properly. It's not any generic diversion. It's THE thing that will screw you up. It is a choice between two choices which you have no way of guessing right, and choosing wrong could be your downfall.

Simply? No, no and no. A angry scum drops more scumtells than a similarly angry town, if they're of the same skill.  Yes, anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed - but dumbass things tend not to be scumtells. Town needs to do it to find scum, and while scum can do it, it only works on people who react strongly, like you, and to a slightly lesser extent, me.  Defending often is not a scumtell either - it just means you're attacked more often and thus NEED to defend yourself. It's HOW they defend that can be a scumtell. Not an IC, so I could be wrong here.  Also, he knows WIFOM enough to know WIFOYIFOM.

Also bread - my attack on Heli has fallen flat. If you want to keep your vote on him - I suggest you tell Jim and the rest of us why, without re-using my words.

Also Jim, look at my last post and this one for my attack on Heli. It's not the most sound one. Also also, I think he means the scum will reliably use WIFOM and other known and limited tactics, thus making them identifiable.

PRE-POST EDIT: I feel I should elaborate on my mindgame. I thought TKoE was scum. Overreacting and whatnot - but I didn't want to vote him on that, as it'd be a blatant bandwagon.  I knew I could convince someone to vote him with enough questions, and I happened to get Heli with my first one.  So Heli, I wasn't as sheepish as you thought.

[Supercharazad]

Supercharazad, asking lots of hypothetical questions are nice, but are you narrowing down your list of suspects any?

Yes. I'm going slowly down the list of people, and those with thr worst answers get more questions.

Crown your answer was alright, Unvote.

Heliman, list every player, in order of scumminess (in your eyes), with the scummiest at the top.

[webadict]

As an SE, I'm entitled to say getting people pissed so they drop scumtells is a bad idea, because anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed.

And that's when you look for scum tells, a town gets angry, a scum will fall back on progressively classic strategies to defend himself.

I'm not in the game, but this isn't necessarily true, since acting like an angry town would be something a scum might do.

If a scum is good enough, they will act like town, so this fails logic. That's like saying scum always lies, which is nonsense, since telling the truth is actually a very, VERY good way to look town. The only part a scum has to lie about is whether they're scum.

The point is you have to think whether this is something someone would do as only town, as town and scum, or as only scum. Be in their position. Don't constrain yourself to think in a limited fashion. There is more to being scum than scumtells. The key is to familiar with them.

[Supercharazad]

In this particular wine, one would smell hints of cyclic thinking and no information, if one was halfway observant.

[Jim Groovester]

Supercharazad, asking lots of hypothetical questions are nice, but are you narrowing down your list of suspects any?

Yes. I'm going slowly down the list of people, and those with thr worst answers get more questions.

Okay.

But what about what's happened in the game so far? What do you think of that?

Also Jim, look at my last post and this one for my attack on Heli. It's not the most sound one. Also also, I think he means the scum will reliably use WIFOM and other known and limited tactics, thus making them identifiable.

But you just said you don't have a case so why should I bother going back to reread it? And I did and I still don't have a clue what you were trying to get at.

[Supercharazad]

Supercharazad, asking lots of hypothetical questions are nice, but are you narrowing down your list of suspects any?

Yes. I'm going slowly down the list of people, and those with thr worst answers get more questions.

Okay.

But what about what's happened in the game so far? What do you think of that?

I think TKoE needs to learn that mafia requires some time put into it, and that Breadbock seems suspicious, I don't know why, there's just something... bothering about him.

[breadbocks]

Jim: I was talking about Heli's defense of himself in particular.

So you want me to tell you if I think you're on the right track or not?

If I thought you were on to anything I would be voting Heliman. But right now I have no idea what the hell the arguments are on either side.

Why do you think Heliman is suspicious, by the way?

I am progressively realizing I phrased that post poorer and poorer. I was asking about whether I was right about relying on getting people pissed for scumtells was less than effective.

As for arguments, I'll skim through, and track down what it was that flipped the scum trigger in my brain.

[Heliman]

I have no idea what you're talking about. What are these progressively classic strategies that scum use to defend themselves?

While normally I would say that if I said them, Scum would automatically be wary of me looking looking for them, but since I've been totally clear on my strategies from the beginning, These are the things I'm looking for an aggravated scum to do Day 1(note, I'm particularly referring to the Day one category of this post. I'm also looking for other tells too, like players becoming enraged or commentless bandwagoneering)

But you just said you don't have a case so why should I bother going back to reread it? And I did and I still don't have a clue what you were trying to get at.

He's probably referring to the question you asked me, that I answered.

The point is you have to think whether this is something someone would do as only town, as town and scum, or as only scum. Be in their position. Don't constrain yourself to think in a limited fashion. There is more to being scum than scumtells. The key is to familiar with them.

That's the issue I'm having though, this is my first game, so I don't know anything about a scum's mindset. For all my aggressive posting, I'm still one of the biggest greenhorns in this game. I'm trying not to think linearly, but I don't know what it's like to be a scum. Research, speculation, and spectating can only tell me so much in this respect.
If you want, you can PM me more about this if you feel so inclined, as I would be very eager to hear how you scum hunt, but not here, it would be best not to use up page space with touchy-feely stuff.

You mean the question you likely posed in your head, but then realized would incriminate you further so you never posted it? Yeeeeeah... Mind posing it now, or forever hold your peace? Because there is no other question you have aimed at me.

Ah-hah, you're have me on that count. I did remove it. I would have been "How exactly would anger give scum the chance to pounce on you?" but I edited out that question when I found the hole in Major's logic.
Seeing as that was all last night, I'm not entirely sure why I prompted you to answer it either, because you did answer it. I still disagree with your answer, but you did answer it.

Heliman, list every player, in order of scumminess (in your eyes), with the scummiest at the top.

Hmmm, Scumminess?

major_sephiroth (perceived scumtell, still pursuing)
Bdthemag (Lurking with no reason, while being active elsewhere)
The King of Eggs (3 day vacation, incredibly suspicious manner of posting)
Breadbocks (seems to be coming on a little bandwagony with seph, but could easily be considered as normal scum hunting.)
Jim Groovester (still wary, but there's nothing that I could scream at.)
Supercharazard<-->Toaster<-->CrownofFire (equal level of suspicion, because you're all playing similarly so far: shorter sized posts, usually questioning an individual person and/or answering a question asked by someone else.)

The ICs would probably be higher in this list, but that would be because of my fear of their skill rather than me thinking they're scummy.



Ok, questions posed toward me look squared away, now it's time for hunting. Don't you back off just yet Seph, I'm not done with you yet.

Well. I'll say the little things first:
The last quote you have on me was supposed to get people to look at you and decide by themselves - if someone voted you for my reasons alone.

A question to the entire forum "to decide for themselves" after a good sized and very accusatory post can only be regarded as a call to form a bandwagon, don't try playing it off as something less severe, it is what it is.

I'd FoS them, at the very least.

A player Bandwagoning is always, at the very least, slightly suspicious. Because of this, anyone who jumps on a bandwagon always adds their two cents, so in all liklihood you would have FoS'd no one.

Now - it seems I misinterpreted my main evidence post here Heliman. I still think you're scum, but there's no solid case.
Onto your mindgames thing. It's easy. I mean, I got you to vote for TKoE, didn't I? And just by using the word 'turning' in your earlier post, Bread seems to betray BD by pressuring him. That's the only one I can spot at the moment.

...

PRE-POST EDIT: I feel I should elaborate on my mindgame. I thought TKoE was scum. Overreacting and whatnot - but I didn't want to vote him on that, as it'd be a blatant bandwagon.  I knew I could convince someone to vote him with enough questions, and I happened to get Heli with my first one.  So Heli, I wasn't as sheepish as you thought.

While I'm fully willing to asdf about your apparent mindgames later, this is still a load of scumshit. Why? You're making a serious contradiction by admitting this. Your statement just now proves that the question you asked earlier was a blatant lie made to bandwagon the most active townie.

Bread, and everyone, really. I urge you to look at his response: It's another mindgame. Would a townie have a reason to play mindgames on everyone?

If you don't know why a townie would play a mindgame, Then there is no reason that you would make one in the first place. Any proper town never lies, especially when under heat. It's one thing to play to play covertly, but it's another thing to make a total lie about how you play. Only a scum, and according to Wuba an inexperienced scum at that, would ever have any reason to lie when scum-hunting. You are that scum.

The vote stays, and anyone else willing to comment on this fiasco is welcome.

[breadbocks]

Hmm... Turns out I've more of Towersoared to catch up on than I thought. Expect a slightly longer wait.

[Heliman]

I can't wait to hear it.

[breadbocks]

Let's do this. I'm making this happen.

Spoiler: Post #1 (click to show/hide)

And we're rolling.


Breadbocks, Out of all the new players here, who do you think would make the worst scum?

Nothing odd here at all. Just a simple random vote, and a fitting question for BM. Moving right along.

Spoiler: Post #2 (click to show/hide)

And why is that?

An answer by itself usually isn't enough. You want to tell everybody why. This reveals your thought process, which is what people want from you, and if you're town, is what you want to communicate to everybody. If you are aggressive and interested and active in finding scum, and your answers reflect this, then you will be considered town.

Unfortunately it won't be immediately apparent what sort of thoughts are supposed to be in your head to make you aggressive and interested and active in finding scum. That comes with experience. Just be bold.

While I'm still awake, a big FoS on Jim Groovester for the bolded text in this quote. Groovester's tone in that sentence sounds as if he's speaking from the point of view of a scum, rather than an "impartial source of advice." This is especially odd considering the stressed neutrality of his words in his previous sentence.

I'm not saying that it isn't Pro Town, but it sounds off.

EBWODP: Jim Groovester.

And here we have Heli questioning the IC, and FoSing him for nothing other than him describing the local playstyle. Not enough to deserve more than a but it certainly doesn't help the case.

Spoiler: #3 (click to show/hide)

Just got home from school. I live in EST, and my school lets out crazy late. Ima scan for posts about me, then read the rest of the stuff. Let's see what we got here.

Breadbocks, Out of all the new players here, who do you think would make the worst scum?

I think TKoE. He'd need to pick up on local playstyle quite fast to not seem scummy, because IIRC, passivity can seem scummy here.

A fair enough explanation of your absence, considering your average posting times.

Unvote Breadbocks

Heliman, what do you think is the biggest scumtell in mafia?

A scum role-revealing that he is scum would probably be the biggest scumtell ever, the scum won it anyway and there was no jester.
Aside from that specific scenario, the biggest scumtell? Probably when a player becomes really, really pissed after only being pressed slightly. Come to think of it, it's exactly like what is happening to Egg right now. It's very curious, bearing in mind that he considers himself experienced to begin with.

Curious enough for me to want to see what happens when he's pressured further, at least.


Vote King of Eggs
Eggs. Are you typing in caps lock for any particular reason besides childish rage? It isn't exactly cruise-control for cool, you know.

You've missed the whole point of my opening post, which is that you shouldn't doubt the impartiality of my advice. I'm going to give it to you even if it works against me, because, for me, the purpose of the game isn't to win but to teach all of you. I will never give advice in bad faith. Is that clear? You need to answer this, because if you don't, I am going to have a very difficult time teaching you and you are going to have a very difficult time learning.

I'm not questioning the validity of the point in any way, shape or form. I realize that ICs are obligated and indeed happy to post advice that can only aid the reader, regardless of the recipient and I greatly respect both you and your position in this mafia game.

However, I'm afraid that I cannot lower my FoS just yet (and admittedly, it would even be upgraded to a vote-press if Egg wasn't acting so darn suspicious now and I wasn't waiting for breadbocks to answer my question earlier.) Your advice, while essentially immune any and all Protown/Proscum related critique, should not be immune to accusations of Freudian slips, which is an entirely different ballpark, and is what I'm suspicious of you for. Instead of viewing it as a staunch refusal of your advice, think of it as having someone accept and even be eager to hear your ideas, but on the flip-side is also looking doing an in-depth analysis of all your diction. Your role here still carries with it a 2/9 chance of being scum, and if you are scum, it wouldn't be a good game for us beginners if you gave yourself up. If this isn't how I should be scum hunting an IC, Tell me, how else can I?

Here we get some oddity. He completely skips over somebody who he already had FoS'd, albeit on a bs reason, and instead goes for somebody completely new, especially when he has no reason other than "U MAD?".

Spoiler:  #4 (click to show/hide)

Ok, back, now for the endless stream of words.
*looks at some questions*
*Sigh*
You'll have to excuse the big words, I tend to make them when making an argument I find intricate.
Plain words then? Sure, why in the hell not.

Heli, mind quoting your post at me? I missed it, I think.

You already answered question, because it was my first question. I said that I was waiting for you earlier, meaning past tense, meaning that you already answered it.

It's one thing to continue an argument while pursuing others. It's odd at the least to single-mindedly pursue one person while ignoring the rest in this game.

Bread, I think it is a bit impossible to be "single-mindedly" pursuing someone when I have only made 6 posts(including this one) since the start of the game and accused 3 players in the process, that’s literally one new person every two posts.

It doesn't help that "Y U MAKE CAPSLOCK" is a bs reason to vote, when he seemed all but convicted you are scum.

While admittedly I am genuinely curious as to why he's using so much caps, the real reason I'm asking him this question is not to see his reasoning, but to make him angrier. The more furious he is, the more scumtells he will have.
And two, show me where (I was going to say “he,” but who are you referring to here?) said that he was “convicted” that I was scum.

Heliman, I want to pick your brain next.  What do you think the value is of a townie convincing someone else that he is indeed town-aligned?  How much self-defense do you think is too much?

The value of a townie convincing someone else of his alignment is obvious and two pronged: it prevents the town from wasting a day on a bum lead and improves the chances that the next person they target will be a scum.

As for the second question, it depends on the situation. The way I see it, as long as a bandwagon isn't forming against you there's no real reason that you should start to turtle. Votes against players tend to fall lazily like snow and blow away easily like dust in the wind, provided they have nothing to latch onto. However, if there is a bandwagon barreling toward my tender townie asshole, then I don't think there's such a thing as too much self-defense, because Town would be wasting a whole day if I didn't defend properly.

There wasn't any Freudian slip because I meant everything that I said.

*pinches the area between eyebrows*
God Jim I know that you meant everything you said.
I'm merely suspicious of the way you unintentionally said it.
I'd blather on about it more but my suspicion here really doesn't matter anymore, because there is a really angry Egg bouncing around that I'd rather go chase and paw at like a kitten instead.

Here we have Heli commenting that too much self-defense, and not enough aggression makes Jack a dull axe-crazy boy. Then he tries to put words in Jim's mouth, while using HE MAD as an excuse for not inciting the wrath of somebody who could pick up on any scumtells he makes much better than I or anybody else.

:I
Well then, I don't know what to say.

Then he swiftly goes "Well nyeh" when called out on trying to mess up Jim

Spoiler: #5 (click to show/hide)

Heliman, I want to pick your brain next.  What do you think the value is of a townie convincing someone else that he is indeed town-aligned?  How much self-defense do you think is too much?

The value of a townie convincing someone else of his alignment is obvious and two pronged: it prevents the town from wasting a day on a bum lead and improves the chances that the next person they target will be a scum.

Putting my two cents in here. It does more than that - it may increase the townie's chance of being NK'd. It also allows the scum to pull out all sorts of WIFOM regarding the townie.

Actually, I think that it would be best to not weigh the value of defending yourself on the tactics of the scum, it's WIFOM in and of itself.

Actually, it isn't. As long as you don't propose to the public "If I defend myself, the scum might NK me, but if I don't, I get lynched. What should I do?" it is only an inner debate.

Spoiler: #6 (click to show/hide)

I've extended it myself, meaning the extend votes are reset.

Why? That makes the day 216 hours long (I think), which seems a TAD long.

Bacause he's the mod and he can do that sort of thing.

Bdthmag, care to explain your absence?

I've been looking at his posts, and apparently he has been spending time doing this. It would be stupid of him to use this as an excuse though, because he didn't even type much there. Opportunity to post + Unanswered questions+ a failure to post= Very scummy behavior. I know the "failure to post" scumtell has been thrown around proactively in the last couple of pages, but so far he's had nothing but incredibly short and low quality posts.
To put it simply, not only is he going through a lurking spell now, but he has been generally inactive since the start of the game. He hasn't made a response to Crown's answer yet and he hasn't answered Jim's question, even though he has had the time to add input on either of them.
That is Scummy, very VERY scummy.

Unvote TKoE(No point in questioning the formally absent scummy player, at least while he's gone.)

Vote Bdthmag Yes, please explain your absence, and while you're at it, tell us why your not properly responding to questions and answers, because we all know you're not damn near busy enough to "not have the time."

Erp. The moment I mention something that would divert attention from him, he suddenly pounces as if his life depended on it. Rather than give him a chance to explain himself (which he wouldn't have, but that wasn't known at the time.) Heli points his finger and shouts SCUM.

Spoiler: 7 (click to show/hide)

You're diverting attention from yourself onto BD. It wasn't the most subtle thing in the world, and any sort of diversion is suspicious to me.

Attention wise, the only person voting on me so far is Breadbocks, and Toaster. Toaster just voted to press a question on me and Breadbocks is the one who initially started turning on Bdthmag (it's not like I totally dismantled his argument or anything.)

The FoS is also there because you seem to defend, rather then attack. You also said at one point that a townie should only really defend if there's a bus forming on him.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself at all in the absence of a bandwagon. You just shouldn't "turtle" yourself, or defend totally, even to a point where your scum hunting stops being scum hunting because you're just attacking blindly to defend yourself (Egg's OMGUS without a reason would be a good example of this.)
It's perfectly fine to retort to a vote against you, but you should be scumhunting at the same time too. It may seem like I'm being very defensive right now, but this is actually because both of my top suspects are absent.

Oh, BTW, it's actually called a bandwagon, not a bus. A "bus" is described as the act of a scum distancing himself from other scum.

And also, sheepish? That's a little harsh, don't you think?

Eh, used the adjective because you're the only player who doesn't have his vote cast right now.

He acts as if the only way there can be attention on someone is if they are voting for them. Not so. Then Heli goes on about tips he should be taking to heart himself. Finally, he is acting as if being careful where your vote goes is bad play.

Spoiler: 8 (click to show/hide)

You could almost say that I'm a Mind Game Ship when it comes to my hunting.

You could almost say that I'm a Mind Game Ship when it comes to my hunting.

Hmmm - this wine tastes funny. You just admitted to being a goldmine of WIFOM

author=Heliman

Lol, no, I'm not admitting to WIFOM, I'm just pissing Breadbocks off because he hates obscure Tv Tropes links.

also, answer the question I asked you.

Going for the U MAD, like he was trying for with Egg and then failed at. Nothing but another attempt to get the most unreliable data possible. Even the king of mafia says that that "trick" is less than useful for townies.

Spoiler: 9 (click to show/hide)

I have no idea what you're talking about. What are these progressively classic strategies that scum use to defend themselves?

While normally I would say that if I said them, Scum would automatically be wary of me looking looking for them, but since I've been totally clear on my strategies from the beginning, These are the things I'm looking for an aggravated scum to do Day 1(note, I'm particularly referring to the Day one category of this post. I'm also looking for other tells too, like players becoming enraged or commentless bandwagoneering)

But you just said you don't have a case so why should I bother going back to reread it? And I did and I still don't have a clue what you were trying to get at.

He's probably referring to the question you asked me, that I answered.

The point is you have to think whether this is something someone would do as only town, as town and scum, or as only scum. Be in their position. Don't constrain yourself to think in a limited fashion. There is more to being scum than scumtells. The key is to familiar with them.

That's the issue I'm having though, this is my first game, so I don't know anything about a scum's mindset. For all my aggressive posting, I'm still one of the biggest greenhorns in this game. I'm trying not to think linearly, but I don't know what it's like to be a scum. Research, speculation, and spectating can only tell me so much in this respect.
If you want, you can PM me more about this if you feel so inclined, as I would be very eager to hear how you scum hunt, but not here, it would be best not to use up page space with touchy-feely stuff.

You mean the question you likely posed in your head, but then realized would incriminate you further so you never posted it? Yeeeeeah... Mind posing it now, or forever hold your peace? Because there is no other question you have aimed at me.

Ah-hah, you're have me on that count. I did remove it. I would have been "How exactly would anger give scum the chance to pounce on you?" but I edited out that question when I found the hole in Major's logic.
Seeing as that was all last night, I'm not entirely sure why I prompted you to answer it either, because you did answer it. I still disagree with your answer, but you did answer it.

Heliman, list every player, in order of scumminess (in your eyes), with the scummiest at the top.

Hmmm, Scumminess?

major_sephiroth (perceived scumtell, still pursuing)
Bdthemag (Lurking with no reason, while being active elsewhere)
The King of Eggs (3 day vacation, incredibly suspicious manner of posting)
Breadbocks (seems to be coming on a little bandwagony with seph, but could easily be considered as normal scum hunting.)
Jim Groovester (still wary, but there's nothing that I could scream at.)
Supercharazard<-->Toaster<-->CrownofFire (equal level of suspicion, because you're all playing similarly so far: shorter sized posts, usually questioning an individual person and/or answering a question asked by someone else.)

The ICs would probably be higher in this list, but that would be because of my fear of their skill rather than me thinking they're scummy.



Ok, questions posed toward me look squared away, now it's time for hunting. Don't you back off just yet Seph, I'm not done with you yet.

Well. I'll say the little things first:
The last quote you have on me was supposed to get people to look at you and decide by themselves - if someone voted you for my reasons alone.

A question to the entire forum "to decide for themselves" after a good sized and very accusatory post can only be regarded as a call to form a bandwagon, don't try playing it off as something less severe, it is what it is.

I'd FoS them, at the very least.

A player Bandwagoning is always, at the very least, slightly suspicious. Because of this, anyone who jumps on a bandwagon always adds their two cents, so in all liklihood you would have FoS'd no one.

Now - it seems I misinterpreted my main evidence post here Heliman. I still think you're scum, but there's no solid case.
Onto your mindgames thing. It's easy. I mean, I got you to vote for TKoE, didn't I? And just by using the word 'turning' in your earlier post, Bread seems to betray BD by pressuring him. That's the only one I can spot at the moment.

...

PRE-POST EDIT: I feel I should elaborate on my mindgame. I thought TKoE was scum. Overreacting and whatnot - but I didn't want to vote him on that, as it'd be a blatant bandwagon.  I knew I could convince someone to vote him with enough questions, and I happened to get Heli with my first one.  So Heli, I wasn't as sheepish as you thought.

While I'm fully willing to asdf about your apparent mindgames later, this is still a load of scumshit. Why? You're making a serious contradiction by admitting this. Your statement just now proves that the question you asked earlier was a blatant lie made to bandwagon the most active townie.

Bread, and everyone, really. I urge you to look at his response: It's another mindgame. Would a townie have a reason to play mindgames on everyone?

If you don't know why a townie would play a mindgame, Then there is no reason that you would make one in the first place. Any proper town never lies, especially when under heat. It's one thing to play to play covertly, but it's another thing to make a total lie about how you play. Only a scum, and according to Wuba an inexperienced scum at that, would ever have any reason to lie when scum-hunting. You are that scum.

The vote stays, and anyone else willing to comment on this fiasco is welcome.

Thanks for posting that list, so I don't need to. You aren't immune to the rules, just because you are the one to say them. What is this I found?

Wishy Washy voting patterns and wagon jumping.
...
Voting without any good reason, or indeed any reason whatsoever.

Well, it would seem two out of 10 tells apply to you. Oops. In addition, ANYBODY can get enraged, and if you manage to do it on a pro-town, you just snagged somebody who is sure to hunt down ever little scumslip you make. And then... What is this? Could it be? I don't believe it! You actually admit to knowing less than those with more experience? Well then have a brotip. You need to understand the scum mindset to be able to catch them. You will never be a good scumhunter if  you just rely on a list of scumtells, especially for a different forum, with a different play style.

I think I need exposit no more.

Heliman, you shall rot as scum forever more.

[Jim Groovester]

I have no idea what you're talking about. What are these progressively classic strategies that scum use to defend themselves?

While normally I would say that if I said them, Scum would automatically be wary of me looking looking for them, but since I've been totally clear on my strategies from the beginning, These are the things I'm looking for an aggravated scum to do Day 1(note, I'm particularly referring to the Day one category of this post. I'm also looking for other tells too, like players becoming enraged or commentless bandwagoneering)

You should just ignore and forget any and every guide you see because I'm a better resource and you're going to screw it up somehow anyway, like I'm pretty sure you already have. Hence why I have no idea what the fuck anybody is talking about.

Just learn what is and what is not a scumtell naturally.

But you just said you don't have a case so why should I bother going back to reread it? And I did and I still don't have a clue what you were trying to get at.

He's probably referring to the question you asked me, that I answered.

If I wanted you to answer questions I directed at major_sephiroth I would've asked you to.

Well. I'll say the little things first:
The last quote you have on me was supposed to get people to look at you and decide by themselves - if someone voted you for my reasons alone.

A question to the entire forum "to decide for themselves" after a good sized and very accusatory post can only be regarded as a call to form a bandwagon, don't try playing it off as something less severe, it is what it is.

You're being dumb, stop it.

You're forgetting that the whole point of scumhunting is to bring a player's scumminess to light so that they will hopefully be lynched. Making these points visible and trying to convince everybody that the player is scum is exactly what you're supposed to be doing.

You're also forgetting how players are lynched: by majority vote. People voting you doesn't automatically make it a bandwagon. It's only if they do it reasonlessly or add nothing to other people's reasons. And even then, sometimes people just agree that a player is scummy.

So how about you stop attacking major_sephiroth for the method of how he's trying to get you lynched, and instead, attack him for the why. Because he's doing exactly what he's supposed to.

And everybody shut the fuck up about mindgames. You're all wrong about them and you all look stupid talking about them and you all look even dumber trying to do them.

I think I need exposit no more.

You're being dumb, stop it.

How about you condense what makes Heliman scummy into a single sentence. Find the best points, bring them to light. If you can't do that, then you're not going to convince anybody to vote for him. Case in point: I'm not reading through that list of posts to find badly formatted, single line accusations that don't really tell me anything.

It's scummy and completely worthless and useless to say that every post a player did is scummy.

Try again.