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[Jim Groovester]

it would even be upgraded to a vote-press if Egg wasn't acting so darn suspicious now and I wasn't waiting for breadbocks to answer my question earlier

Actually, you probably should have ignored Egg for the ime being, do the press vote and before tuesday, change your vote to Egg. As Jim has told me and others countless times before (him or someone else, I think it's him) "it's not like you can't change it".

Nothing wrong with applying pressure onto TKoE. Nor would there have been anything wrong with pressure voting me. Heliman's doing fine right now.

You've missed the whole point of my opening post, which is that you shouldn't doubt the impartiality of my advice. I'm going to give it to you even if it works against me, because, for me, the purpose of the game isn't to win but to teach all of you. I will never give advice in bad faith. Is that clear? You need to answer this, because if you don't, I am going to have a very difficult time teaching you and you are going to have a very difficult time learning.

I'm not questioning the validity of the point in any way, shape or form. I realize that ICs are obligated and indeed happy to post advice that can only aid the reader, regardless of the recipient and I greatly respect both you and your position in this mafia game.

However, I'm afraid that I cannot lower my FoS just yet (and admittedly, it would even be upgraded to a vote-press if Egg wasn't acting so darn suspicious now and I wasn't waiting for breadbocks to answer my question earlier.) Your advice, while essentially immune any and all Protown/Proscum related critique, should not be immune to accusations of Freudian slips, which is an entirely different ballpark, and is what I'm suspicious of you for. Instead of viewing it as a staunch refusal of your advice, think of it as having someone accept and even be eager to hear your ideas, but on the flip-side is also looking doing an in-depth analysis of all your diction. Your role here still carries with it a 2/9 chance of being scum, and if you are scum, it wouldn't be a good game for us beginners if you gave yourself up. If this isn't how I should be scum hunting an IC, Tell me, how else can I?

You can stop buttering me up. I don't really care. Just get to what you want to say without all the verbal fluff. It's distracting.

There wasn't any Freudian slip because I meant everything that I said. Just because the PM you received from the mod says that you are town, does not mean that you will be considered town. Town have to do their part to look town while they play.

I'm still not clear on exactly what you think you caught me doing. The Freudian slip you accuse me of is part of the advice I gave, and a fairly important part too.

However, Heliand Egg, I'll be watching this volley closely.

Why is that cause for suspicion?

[breadbocks]

However, Heliand Egg, I'll be watching this volley closely.

Why is that cause for suspicion?

The fact I'm watching the volley is both the cause and effect. Egg has the thin excuse of a different community he's played in to cover the fact that he all but questioned why we are scum hunting. For Heli, it's more that he seems to be sort of hiding his arguments behind walls of meaningless words. Thus I am initially suspicious, and then the fact that both Egg's excuse for a pretty grave thing for Town was weak at best, and the fact Heli is spending more time arguing with the IC than paying attention to others give me a particular interest in this exchange. It's one thing to continue an argument while pursuing others. It's odd at the least to single-mindedly pursue one person while ignoring the rest in this game. It doesn't help that "Y U MAKE CAPSLOCK" is a bs reason to vote, when he seemed all but convicted you are scum.

PREVIEW EDIT: Unvote Seph UnFoS Egg Hmm. Looking at my thoughts on metaphorical paper makes me think that I'm more interested in how Heliman responds to this. I'm still interested in how Egg covers for himself, but not as much as how Heli does.

[major_sephiroth]

Firstly, my bad about pressuring you guys after 5 hours. Didn't check the time of posts.

Why would you want to have a power role when you claim to be unable to scumhunt well? Because a cop is a powerful role, and to use it to glide by because you can't scumhunt the normal way is less than spectacular.

Unvote. Well, I must agree there. But still - someone who is poor at scumhunting would help the town more as a cop - providing they aren't lynched or NK'd Day/Night 1. They could roleclaim and the town gains confirmed information, barring claims of WIFOM. Alternatively, if they get a scum result, it might help them find scumtells to convince the town anyway.

Breadbocks, if you were a doctor, who would you protect?

Hard to pinpoint. If I were the doctor, I'd pick either the second best scum hunter, or the best scumhunter, depending on how experienced the person I think is scummy is.

While a good answer, I was after names. I'll second your call for a Votecount.

Bdthemag:

Bdthemag, who would you want to be scum in this game?
I wouldn't know, since i've never played mafia with anyone here.

Even so, you know that there are IC's and beginners. Also, if you could answer Jim:

I asked you a clarifying question here that I want answered.

Jim Groovester: I would probally inspect the person making the most accusations of other people.

And why is that?

Heliman, great answer, except for one thing: Refuge in Audacity. While it 'never works' according to the first post, it does create WIFOM and the likes. I agree though.
The King of Eggs:

IN ORDER TO SAVE ON QUOTE TAGS MY COMMENTS ARE GREEN

The King of Eggs, it could just be your different style of play, but you come off as heartless and overly defensive to me.  I mean WANTING a scumbuddy you can bus? Wouldn't you much prefer a scumbuddy who's just skilled? I SUFFER FROM PARRANOIR, I TRUST NO ONE NOT TO BUS ME FIRST.

So. You like questions?
(These are directed at The King of Eggs)
If you were a cop, who would you investigate, based on the day so far? JIM, HE IS A POWERFUL TOWN ALLY OR A POWERFUL MAFIA MEMBER, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHICH
If you were a vigilante, (even though there can't be one), who would you kill? I WOULD TARGET JIM WITH THIS POWER ROLE ALSO, AS IF I CAN NOT BE SURE OF HIS ALLIGENCE THEN I CAN NOT CO-EXIST WITH HIM. OF COURSE VIG USSUALLY DON'T KILL N1, AND I FOLLOW THAT PRACTISE
Also, if you could elaborate on this:

basically i would pick someone i could if i needed to yes

I MEAN THAT I WOULD CHOOSE SOMEONE I COULD USE AS A DISTRACTION QUICKLY IF NEEDED

On to the fun part. Firstly: I'm paranoid too, mostly. And I wouldn't bus my scumbuddy unless they were going down anyway and/or useless.  Pre-emptive bussing wouldn't help.
Your cop target: Not bad. I did that one game - investigate the IC. It would've helped if I wasn't NK'd.
Your vig target: You'd risk the fact he was town? I thought you were paranoid. Also - you don't need to follow traditional practice.  If I had a scumpick, I know I'd hit them N1.
Your elaboration: That isn't too scummy, but you are heartless.
My vote stays off you for now. The FoS stays on.

And to you guys who are worried about times: weekends count for 0 hours guys!

[Toaster]

major_sephiroth:  What do you hope to get out of this game?  If you could pick one of the four possible power roles (Cop, Doctor, Godfather, or Roleblocker), which would you pick?  Why?

Well, I'd want to be a Cop, as my scumhunting skills are lacking. It'd help the town - assuming I could convince the town of my results. Godfather is a close second, due to it being a goldmine of WIFOM.

Fair enough.  Unvote.


TKoE:  I see.  I'm curious to see how it works for you.


CrownofFire:  The best way I can answer that is to refer you to BM XXI, where I was a IC and scum.  I felt I did a pretty good job of separating the two jobs (encouraging good play as IC and seeking a win as scum) the first two days, but I got lazy day three.  I'd rather have seven good players come out of this game than win as scum.

If Jim and I were both scum, I think we'd have to keep reminding each other to help people.  Well, Jim would probably keep it up anyway.


Breadbocks:  Using random.org to pick a RV target is perfectly valid.  Advertising that choice takes all the pressure out of it.


Heliman, I want to pick your brain next.  What do you think the value is of a townie convincing someone else that he is indeed town-aligned?  How much self-defense do you think is too much?


BD:  What would you look for in the ideal scum mate?

[Heliman]

Woah! A lot of questions here that I will get to after I get back from going to the gun range.
Expect an answer to all of them when I return.

[ECrownofFire]

CrownofFire


What was that? Did you fail at quoting?
What do you think is the worst case scenario for roles?

Er, yeah, I should have previewed that post. Way too late for that now, I suppose. Ah well, it's clear enough anyway.

Worst case scenario? Well, both of the possible Mafia roles rely on what the Town has. A Godfather is completely useless if there are no Cops, and a Roleblocker is useless with zero power roles in play. Given that, it's hard to tell. There's a maximum of one of each role, after all. So overall, it's probably zero Town roles. If it were possible to have more than one Godfather, then a Cop and two Godfathers.

CrownofFire, bussing is actually a legitimate scum strategy. It might not be the nicest strategy, but being nice doesn't win games. Unwillingness to vote your scum partner, especially if he's a sinking ship, is usually a more visible scum tell than bussing him.

I understand that, but the way that The King of Eggs worded it made it seem like he would have to "quickly" bus his partner, which makes it seem to me that the only scenario he'd have is to throw suspicion off himself when he's in danger of getting lynched. In other words, it's not his partner that would be the sinking ship, it would be him.

I'll be reading into other posts after this.

[breadbocks]

Woah! A lot of questions here that I will get to after I get back from going to the gun range.
Expect an answer to all of them when I return.

Well, it seems someone likes shooting an awful lot. You've been gone 1 minute shy of 5 hours. Toaster's #1 scumtell.

[Jim Groovester]

Don't give people crap for not answering your questions after the span of only a few hours.

Give it twenty-four hours or so.

[Toaster]

Woah! A lot of questions here that I will get to after I get back from going to the gun range.
Expect an answer to all of them when I return.

Well, it seems someone likes shooting an awful lot. You've been gone 1 minute shy of 5 hours. Toaster's #1 scumtell.

It needs to be repeated to fall under T#1ST.  Doing it once is benign- I do it too when I'm tired/busy/whatever.

[Heliman]

Ok, back, now for the endless stream of words.
*looks at some questions*
*Sigh*
You'll have to excuse the big words, I tend to make them when making an argument I find intricate.
Plain words then? Sure, why in the hell not.

Heli, mind quoting your post at me? I missed it, I think.

You already answered question, because it was my first question. I said that I was waiting for you earlier, meaning past tense, meaning that you already answered it.

It's one thing to continue an argument while pursuing others. It's odd at the least to single-mindedly pursue one person while ignoring the rest in this game.

Bread, I think it is a bit impossible to be "single-mindedly" pursuing someone when I have only made 6 posts(including this one) since the start of the game and accused 3 players in the process, that’s literally one new person every two posts.

It doesn't help that "Y U MAKE CAPSLOCK" is a bs reason to vote, when he seemed all but convicted you are scum.

While admittedly I am genuinely curious as to why he's using so much caps, the real reason I'm asking him this question is not to see his reasoning, but to make him angrier. The more furious he is, the more scumtells he will have.
And two, show me where (I was going to say “he,” but who are you referring to here?) said that he was “convicted” that I was scum.

Heliman, I want to pick your brain next.  What do you think the value is of a townie convincing someone else that he is indeed town-aligned?  How much self-defense do you think is too much?

The value of a townie convincing someone else of his alignment is obvious and two pronged: it prevents the town from wasting a day on a bum lead and improves the chances that the next person they target will be a scum.

As for the second question, it depends on the situation. The way I see it, as long as a bandwagon isn't forming against you there's no real reason that you should start to turtle. Votes against players tend to fall lazily like snow and blow away easily like dust in the wind, provided they have nothing to latch onto. However, if there is a bandwagon barreling toward my tender townie asshole, then I don't think there's such a thing as too much self-defense, because Town would be wasting a whole day if I didn't defend properly.

There wasn't any Freudian slip because I meant everything that I said.

*pinches the area between eyebrows*
God Jim I know that you meant everything you said.
I'm merely suspicious of the way you unintentionally said it.
I'd blather on about it more but my suspicion here really doesn't matter anymore, because there is a really angry Egg bouncing around that I'd rather go chase and paw at like a kitten instead.

[Jim Groovester]

No, you don't understand.

I meant everything that I said, and I intended to say every word of it.

It was worded that way deliberately.

[Heliman]

:I
Well then, I don't know what to say.

[lordnincompoop]

If it were possible to have more than one Godfather

There can only be one.

[major_sephiroth]

Heliman, I want to pick your brain next.  What do you think the value is of a townie convincing someone else that he is indeed town-aligned?  How much self-defense do you think is too much?

The value of a townie convincing someone else of his alignment is obvious and two pronged: it prevents the town from wasting a day on a bum lead and improves the chances that the next person they target will be a scum.

Putting my two cents in here. It does more than that - it may increase the townie's chance of being NK'd. It also allows the scum to pull out all sorts of WIFOM regarding the townie.

Also TKoE, You haven't spoken too much after that outburst.  So you have at least one thing to say, answer this:
If everyone started to vote you, what would you do?

[Heliman]

Heliman, I want to pick your brain next.  What do you think the value is of a townie convincing someone else that he is indeed town-aligned?  How much self-defense do you think is too much?

The value of a townie convincing someone else of his alignment is obvious and two pronged: it prevents the town from wasting a day on a bum lead and improves the chances that the next person they target will be a scum.

Putting my two cents in here. It does more than that - it may increase the townie's chance of being NK'd. It also allows the scum to pull out all sorts of WIFOM regarding the townie.

Actually, I think that it would be best to not weigh the value of defending yourself on the tactics of the scum, it's WIFOM in and of itself.