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[Toaster]

I'll try to give this game a good read-through tomorrow, but it may be Monday morning before I give good content.  From my quick readover, the activity/hunting seems pretty good so far.

Crown:  I'll give you a general answer now and a specific answer later.  Generally, I would inspect someone whom I either couldn't read or strongly suspected but I didn't have a strong case on.  I would protect whomever I thought was the most townlike, or someone who is confirmed town if it was possible to confirm in the setup.

[major_sephiroth]

I'm just sorta watching.

Your cop target: Not bad. I did that one game - investigate the IC. It would've helped if I wasn't NK'd.

Lol. Yeah, I got you good, didn't I? I'm not even sure why I felt like killing you, either.

My exact expression when I read that I was NK'd was ARGLEFAFRGLE DAMMIT WEB. Then AGAIN when I saw the Mafia chat.

Back onto this mafia:

You could almost say that I'm a Mind Game Ship when it comes to my hunting.

Hmmm - this wine tastes funny. You just admitted to being a goldmine of WIFOM

You're diverting attention from yourself onto BD. It wasn't the most subtle thing in the world, and any sort of diversion is suspicious to me.

Attention wise, the only person voting on me so far is Breadbocks, and Toaster. Toaster just voted to press a question on me and Breadbocks is the one who initially started turning on Bdthmag (it's not like I totally dismantled his argument or anything.)

The FoS is also there because you seem to defend, rather then attack. You also said at one point that a townie should only really defend if there's a bus forming on him.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself at all in the absence of a bandwagon. You just shouldn't "turtle" yourself, or defend totally, even to a point where your scum hunting stops being scum hunting because you're just attacking blindly to defend yourself (Egg's OMGUS without a reason would be a good example of this.)
It's perfectly fine to retort to a vote against you, but you should be scumhunting at the same time too. It may seem like I'm being very defensive right now, but this is actually because both of my top suspects are absent.

Oh, BTW, it's actually called a bandwagon, not a bus. A "bus" is described as the act of a scum distancing himself from other scum.

And also, sheepish? That's a little harsh, don't you think?

Eh, used the adjective because you're the only player who doesn't have his vote cast right now. asrasdg

Firstly, he pressed BD on (partly) your push. You gave good, aggressive reasons on why to vote BD - and in his next post he's pressing BD instead of you. Plus, I was suspicious before, just not enough for a FoS - so I subconsciously thought you meant me as well.
Your second point is fine with me - thanks for the correction. I haven't played enough mafias to know the terms perfectly.
The sheep thing? I've decided the WIFOM thing is far too scummy for my taste. Vote Heliman. I never really got a good town vibe from you and admitting to WIFOM? Too far.

Now, I said this before:

Bdthemag should be active/online about now. If he hasn't posted by the next time I do, he's over-lurking.

And he hasn't posted. BD, if you do not post in the 24 hours after this post is posted, I'm swapping my vote to you. Lurkers aren't good for town. Well, unless Heliman keeps being scummy. Then the vote stays on him.

I didn't "turn" on Bd. I said "Where the fuck are you?". It seems like you are trying to incriminate me for "turning" on somebody, implying I'm scum. You play a good subliminal game, Heli.

Bread, and everyone, really. I urge you to look at his response: It's another mindgame. Would a townie have a reason to play mindgames on everyone?

[Heliman]

You could almost say that I'm a Mind Game Ship when it comes to my hunting.

Hmmm - this wine tastes funny. You just admitted to being a goldmine of WIFOM

Lol, no, I'm not admitting to WIFOM, I'm just pissing Breadbocks off because he hates obscure Tv Tropes links.

[Heliman]

Ah fuck, quotation error, oh well.

[breadbocks]

It not the fact that they are obscure. TvTropes can be useful at times. It just pisses me off to no end that people would be that malicious towards others.

Also, why do you need me to be pissed off? So that in my rage I would make a mistake in my persecution of you, giving you scum the chance to pounce on me? Not a chance.

Heliman, you dig your hole deeper every post.

[Jim Groovester]

What is everybody suddenly voting Heliman for?

I can't follow the arguments. Summaries from everyone involved, please?

[ECrownofFire]

It's not exactly "everyone", only major_sephiroth and breadbocks are as far as I can see. Ah wait, Toaster still has a pressure vote on him.

[Jim Groovester]

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

I mean, I would've gone on asking literally everybody for their reason for voting for Heliman. Even everybody who isn't voting him. Even Heliman's reason for voting Heliman.

Thanks, CrownofFire.

[ECrownofFire]

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

I mean, I would've gone on asking literally everybody for their reason for voting for Heliman. Even everybody who isn't voting him. Even Heliman's reason for voting Heliman.

Thanks, CrownofFire.

You're welcome. Really, where would you be without my help? I mean, you'd probably even ask yourself your reason for voting Heliman without me.

[Heliman]

Also, why do you need me to be pissed off? So that in my rage I would make a mistake in my persecution of you, giving you scum the chance to pounce on me? Not a chance.

Easy answer, an angry scum gives scumtells more often. It can be used as nothing but protown scumhunting, mostly because of all the RAEGVOTES (so very similar to your vote) that it causes.

In all honesty I haven't even been doing any mindgames, I'm not nearly good enough to put thoughts in your head. Like the Conspiracy theorists before you, you just got it in your head that I am, which, by the way, is hilarious. Even if you don't believe this, look at it this way: "mindgames," (excluding cyclical thinking mindgames like WIFOM,) are more or less the basis of the questioning process we've been doing for the last several pages, the good ones are set up to make the answerer give a response that can be used against them later, like a little magic bullet.

Speaking of magic bullets.

Hmmm - this wine tastes funny. You just admitted to being a goldmine of WIFOM :o

Have ever heard of wifoyifom before? probably not, It's quite a long abbreviation, it roughly translates to "Wine in front of you in front of me." It's quite the magic little phrase. As it refers to a situation where a scum tries to push WIFOM on players in order to slot them for lynching.
In that link, and in my post, there was absolutely no admittance of WIFOM in any way whatsoever. Which means You, clever little f*cking scum you, are not only blatantly misinterpreting my post, but also have been using my wonderful little abbbreviation here.

Bread, and everyone, really. I urge you to look at his response: It's another mindgame. Would a townie have a reason to play mindgames on everyone?

And by god you are using wifoyifom to it's fullest, seeing as you're trying to induce the rest of the town to lynch me.
Vote major_sephiroth, nice try at driving the bandwagon, I'm happy I was able to jeer you into it.

[breadbocks]

As an SE, I'm entitled to say getting people pissed so they drop scumtells is a bad idea, because anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed. Only scum would do it because they need a townie to get lynched for the day. Every time you try to defend yourself, you seem scummier and scummier. This is correct ICs, no?

Also, I don't think you understand WIFOM properly. It's not any generic diversion. It's THE thing that will screw you up. It is a choice between two choices which you have no way of guessing right, and choosing wrong could be your downfall.

[Heliman]

As an SE, I'm entitled to say getting people pissed so they drop scumtells is a bad idea, because anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed.

And that's when you look for scum tells, a town gets angry, a scum will fall back on progressively classic strategies to defend himself.

Also, I don't think you understand WIFOM properly. It's not any generic diversion. It's THE thing that will screw you up. It is a choice between two choices which you have no way of guessing right, and choosing wrong could be your downfall.

I fully realize the concept of WIFOM and I meant every word of what I said.

[Heliman]

also, answer the question I asked you.

[Jim Groovester]

As an SE, I'm entitled to say getting people pissed so they drop scumtells is a bad idea, because anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed. Only scum would do it because they need a townie to get lynched for the day. Every time you try to defend yourself, you seem scummier and scummier. This is correct ICs, no?

Weeeeeell, now that you asked. I was going to let this go on for a little longer before imparting my advice. And after I understood what the cases are. Still not sure on that.

First things first: defending yourself isn't a crime. If that's all you do, that's scummy, but if you're defending yourself from accusation while you're still looking for scum, that's perfectly acceptable. Generally speaking though, unless you're creeping up in votes, you don't need to defend yourself vehemently. Answer all their questions, ask for their reasons. If you do start to creep up in votes, yeah, go ahead, start defending yourself more and more. But don't ever stop looking for scum. That is the one thing you should never ever stop doing.

About making people mad: deliberately making people mad as a scumhunting strategy I generally don't think is very effective, because all you'll succeed in doing is making them mad and whatever scum tells you think you get will probably be junk. But you do want to keep people off balance by asking them tough, probing questions, and it's not uncommon to use hostility to get what you want. You'll see it range from a little to a whole lot.

As a means to an end, getting people angry to get answers out of them isn't such a bad idea, but it should never be a goal unto itself. Keep the game friendly, even when you're screaming profanities at each other.

As an SE, I'm entitled to say getting people pissed so they drop scumtells is a bad idea, because anyone can say dumbass things when annoyed.

And that's when you look for scum tells, a town gets angry, a scum will fall back on progressively classic strategies to defend himself.

I have no idea what you're talking about. What are these progressively classic strategies that scum use to defend themselves?

[breadbocks]

You mean the question you likely posed in your head, but then realized would incriminate you further so you never posted it? Yeeeeeah... Mind posing it now, or forever hold your peace? Because there is no other question you have aimed at me.

Jim: I was talking about Heli's defense of himself in particular.