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[JoshuaFH]

I'm just having some small trouble with getting online recently. Literally, the only computer that I can access Bay12 is from my roommate's computer through internet that he's paying for, but he's a shut-in and literally gets on the computer first thing in the morning, and stays on until he goes to bed. While I can ask him for a minute, that's all he'll give me, so I apologize if I'm not as active as I usually am. I might have to opt out of future rounds if I can't remedy this.

I have a bit of time though, since he's gone out with a friend right now.

What I had in mind was if one of Joker or BD are the ones being protected, then Toaster should daycop that one and then do something like: we no-lynch, have Joker/BD/Myself, whichever one is protected, kills Native. Think Targets Native with his fairy godmother ability, killing both, but leaving the killer unhurt.

Minus the possible scumkill, that leaves Myself, presuming that neither was Km, then there'll be BD, joker, Toaster, and Tyberix. Tyber reflects me, so if there is a kill that can't be placed, I'm guaranteed to remain around to suess out the culprit.

There's also the plan where I completely negate the possibility anyone being KM, where we have BD target Native, Joker target Think, and I target Toaster (and thus Tyberix), thus leaving only myself and Toaster alive. I don't think it'd work though, since I don't know who Native's targeting.

[Think0028]

Toaster: your best bet today is daycopping BD, actually, if we go through with the Joker-Native-Think0028 mutual suicide pact. BD absolutely can't die to a NK, so he'll live on to the final 3 or 4 no matter what. As I'm pretty damn sure BD isn't fakeclaiming at this point, a town result on him is pretty secure.

Here's the plan as I think of it:
Joker Native Think all kill eachother, as agreed.
Next day, Toaster, Tyberix, Josh, and BD are all present, minus scum kill:
Toaster dies: BD shoots Josh, Josh shoots Tyberix. Game over, as either Tyb is scum or Josh is scum.
Tyberix dies: Lynch Josh, game over.
Josh dies: Lynch Tyberix, game over.
No one dies: BD shoots Josh, Josh shoots Tyberix. Game over.

The only wrench in this plan is the possibility that Native is protecting one of me or Joker. If Joker, then the problem is easily resolved by having BD join the suicide pact instead of Joker. If me... that's gonna be a bit more complicated.

[Think0028]

Josh: Won't work if you're Mafia. With that plan, you could scumkill Joker, fakeclaim that BD did it, get him lynched, and then brutally murder Tyberix and Toaster at night without repurcussions.

[Think0028]

My plan does not have that flaw, as if you do two kills tonight, you could only kill Toaster and Tyberix, and BD would kill you the next night.

[Think0028]

Unvote, No Lynch. Woops, forgot to mention that we should all no lynch today. Still, I figure that was an unspoken assumption.

[NativeForeigner]

Sorry everyone! Been busy as hell moving into my new apartment! I'm not protecting any of those three that would throw a wrench into the plan.

[Think0028]

Great to hear! So No Lynch today, and:

Toaster: Daycop BD, if he's scum then change of plans we lynch him.
Me: I'll target Native and die with honor.
Native: Sit still and die with honor.
Joker: Kill Native and die with honor.
Josh: No killing tonight.
Tyberix: Might as well put a reflect up on Toaster if you can. Since you need to put the reflect on Toaster, do you target yourself since you're a twin? Are you allowed to target yourself, since it'd end up on Toaster?
BD: Sit still and don't die.

[Bdthemag]

Sounds like a good plan to me, i'll just !none then.

[Tyberix]

I can't target myself so i can't protect Toaster this way. Also Unvote.

Now on the plan: Isn't it bit too much susceptible to scum redirect especially on D2 - if mafia got one it would make it bit hard for us.. But on the other hand it's better than nothing. :/

[Think0028]

Okay, I was just curious considering you could 'protect yourself' by targeting Toaster, but shrug.

Good point: if you or Josh (whichever is scum on D2) actually have the ability to redirect, then we would be in trouble. Only if Toaster dies or no one dies, however, as the other plans center around lynching the mafia member, which I don't think is redirectable in King of the Mafia roles? New plan!

Tyberix: Barring any information to the contrary, if you're alive on D2 (which is mandatory for the redirection problem to come up) put a reflection on BD. My theory is based around this question:

Webadict: If a redirector targets someone with a reflection shield, does he redirect himself before he redirects his target, ending up with him only redirecting himself? Or does the original redirection go before the reflected redirection?

If the reflected redirection goes before the original redirection and Tyberix is town, this'll work. Lemme think on it some more to see if I have a more fool proof plan though. Maybe something with lynching Tyberix/Josh...

[Think0028]

Another question for Web, though this one's probably obvious:

Webadict: A redirector can redirect someone to themselves, right?

[JoshuaFH]

Wow Think, that's actually a really good plan. I'm willing to go with it.

[Think0028]

Wow Think, that's actually a really good plan. I'm willing to go with it.

Thank you! As Tyberix pointed out, there's still the problem of a scum redirect, but I feel optimistic. I'm currently running through the various ways redirects could break everything, and if Tyberix can stop them. The only significant possibility of everything going badly now is if Tyberix isn't actually Toaster's twin, but is actually a Redirector or a Nexus. If Tyberix is a redirector, then he wins if he scumkills Toaster. Same issue if Josh is a redirector.

Josh: I'd really like to use your autopsy result, but claiming Lone Wolf means I can't trust you unless we kill someone you accuse, and this setup doesn't seem to allow for that. My apologies.

I think we should assume the worst case and assume that Toaster will die tonight, leaving Josh, Tyberix, and BD. I wish all three of you the best of luck.

[webadict]

Webadict: If a redirector targets someone with a reflection shield, does he redirect himself before he redirects his target, ending up with him only redirecting himself? Or does the original redirection go before the reflected redirection?

If the reflected redirection goes before the original redirection and Tyberix is town, this'll work. Lemme think on it some more to see if I have a more fool proof plan though. Maybe something with lynching Tyberix/Josh...

Redirects happen before reflections.

Another question for Web, though this one's probably obvious:

Webadict: A redirector can redirect someone to themselves, right?

No.

[Toaster]

Hilarious point:  If Tyberix is scum and telling the truth about the twin thing, he can't actually kill me.

Tyberix should reflect one of himself (via me), Josh, or BD, but not tell us which one in an attempt to catch the scum that way.  Except not BD since he's untargetable if he does nothing.


Before I send off my BD daycop, what's the plan if BD is town, Joker, Native, and Think do their thing, and I catch the NK, with no dead scum?  Day game the way to figure out which one is town?  It'd probably be Josh at that point unless Tyberix is a godfather and didn't say so, or is lying about being a twin.