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[Pandarsenic]

Bitterness is your right. Sabotaging the town if you're not King Mafia is throwing your chance at re-entering for a win away, and would constitute either immense idiocy or a full-on rules violation.

My ability gain system is not comparable, for as you may recall, once I use any ability I'll have no way to actually kill people to get powers because all my powers get wiped each time I act. Which is a pretty cool mechanism, actually.

[Azure Sepulchre]

Bitterness is your right. Sabotaging the town if you're not King Mafia is throwing your chance at re-entering for a win away, and would constitute either immense idiocy or a full-on rules violation.

How is killing me because I might get in your way for no reason all that different from me turning someone into turquoise in the hopes that I hit the King? While my reasons might not have quite the righteous tone yours does, that doesn't warrant a double-standard. At the very least, don't discuss killing me to do away with the bother of asking me to do something instead. Not that it's much better to assume I won't do it simply because I'm putting my own interests first - which still consist of ensuring town lasts long enough so I can take the win, something you seem to be having difficulty believing.

Or are you going to tell me your objectives are any different? If so, why are you playing this? If not, then why judge me so harshly? And keep in mind that the only kill I have attempted thus far in this game (back in Round 5) was not only reserved to a day when it could do no lasting damage to town, but was aimed at a role that had no strategic import in the game and was the King Mafia at the time, with the only problem being Darvi's Anarchist ability sending my aim awry. After which I attempted to protect a powerful role from being destroyed by either preventing the King from killing the owner or by claiming it myself, so town can continue to use it; a calculated risk, considering the likelihood of Josh being attacked in the night. Nowhere thus far in the game have I behaved in a way that made things unduly difficult for town, ergo there is no reason for me to be approached with hostility.

My ability gain system is not comparable, for as you may recall, once I use any ability I'll have no way to actually kill people to get powers because all my powers get wiped each time I act. Which is a pretty cool mechanism, actually.

I have killed one person to date. One. You have already pointed out killing me - or anyone else, for that matter - with your ability right now would give you another ability, even if it meant you'd have to discard the previous. That would put us at a kill each, with a single ability gain each. If this were to happen, I would see little difference between us.

[Toaster]

Ok.  Read it over and I've come up with a couple points.


On Azure:  I trust Town Azure not to try to eat someone tonight for giggles.  However, his confusion blowing off could explain the lack of kill last night.  (That's low-grade speculation.)


On Native:  He bugs me because he's unverifiable, but that alone doesn't make him scum.


On Josh:  I suspect he may be lying about the twin as well.

I am a forensic's expert twin. I can perform an autopsy on a player, a day ability, giving me info on their killer. I'm Ottofar's secret twin, and anything targeting me will target him and vice versa.

Assuming that Azure does nothing of course, if he does decide to do something, he definitely won’t target Ottofar, since he probably doesn’t want to become goo, so he could only target one of the investigative roles, which we definitely don’t want.

Did you forget about your twinning here?

Let's not forget this line either:

I’d say that the town have already won this round, provided Joker investigates someone that’s not me tonight, making it impossible for the scum to win.

I can't think of any reason not to want to get investigated!

Also, he seems to be very quiet about his forensic ability

As far as who to daycop, there's no reason to do Joker today.  He doesn't have relevant info right now, so it can easily wait until tomorrow to verify what he claims.  Native is out due to his immunity.  Otto and Josh are tricky due to the claimed twinning, leaving Pandar and Azure, neither of whom I particularly suspect right now.


Hmmm...

I'm inclined to verify Pandar.  Scum with a daykill is a potential LYLO breaker.  Assuming I do, we're armed with a town daykill. 

Actually, it'd be better to check Joker today.   We confirm each other in the day.  He tracks Otto via Josh in the night.  He says today who he inspects, and I'll check to see where he actually goes- if Josh is lying, he'll visit Josh and if he's telling the truth he'll visit Otto.  Assuming Josh is telling the truth (lying=scum, but just telling the truth does not make him town), Otto will be confirmed then if he's town.  By then it'll just be Azure, Pandar, Josh, and Native to check, one of whom will probably be lynched today.  I can confirm one then, and assuming I hit town, daykill one and lynch the other.

Thoughts?  Objections?

[JoshuaFH]

I'm so glad you could finally join us Toaster, I was about ready to call timer on you.

I think it's actually pretty funny that my twin'ing is under suspicion, if only because it's really unexpected. I will have to remember it, place it into a text file I'm building called "Clever Mafia Lies to Remember". I should probably reassure you that any instance where I refer to 'target Ottofar' or 'target me', I'm presuming that the person in question understands that the correct method is through me or him respectively. It's just a mouthful to reiterate 'target him through me' or vice versa, so I shorten it.

The huge flaw in your convoluted logic though, is that I claimed last round right after I took over for Org. When I was town, remember? It'd be something of a grand Machiavellian scheme on my part to lie about my role a whole round in advance, in the off chance that I become King Mafia in the next where that my lies finally coalesces into a terrible backfire in my face and causes me to get lynched or killed accidentally. It's the perfect plan.

Also, I don’t understand what you mean by me ‘being quiet’ about my forensics ability. I’ve been doing nothing but basing my entire plans on my forensics ability, and the likelihood that I’ll die because of it. Perhaps I’m just not being blunt enough with it though, maybe that was the miscommunication?

I’ve been thinking about it, and it’s perfectly alright if you want to daycop me. Why, it’d put the mafia into a tricky proposition, now that I think about it. This is because we’d both be confirmed going into the night. If he kills you, I forensics him, and if he kills me, you’re free to daycop someone else, and joker is free to spend his investigation (IF HE HAS IT, GET BACK TO US ON THAT JOKER) that means he’d have no reason to spend his investigation on me narrowing down the suspects further.

I can understand your worry about Pandar’s daykill, but it’s going to be tomorrow that decides everything, and he physically cannot kill enough people to win by tomorrow if he is mafia. He can’t be the LYLO breaker if we never make it to LYLO.

If you’re still reluctant, then I don’t care, spend your daycop on anyone that’s not Native. The information is invaluable regardless of the target, but if it’s not me, and it’s not Joker, then if you die, then you have two investigatory roles that remain unconfirmed and untrustworthy.

Azure: I can certainly understand the survivalist mindset, because that’s the thing that’s going to determine the winner. I just wish you’d spend more time giving us info that I care for instead of justifications for your actions or attitude, or wild theories that can’t possibly be true.

I do thank you though, for providing an answer to a question that I never thought to ask: So you can target who you goo? Reading the description from the Xylbot list, I just thought it meant that when you die, a random person becomes goo. It’s SO RELIEVING to hear that you can target it!

I should try to end this wall of text pretty soon.

Toaster, even if you don’t think that Native shouldn’t be lynched for his role alone, what about the way he slunk back, defeated, when it looked like his lynch was assured? No fighting, no hostility, just defeat. After a bit more discourse happens though, he’s only popped his head in to unvote, and really not add anything whatsoever. Lurking is a mafia tactic, one that I feel he’s employing.

Same to Ottofar.

[Toaster]

I bought a house Friday- my spare time has been rather nonexistent since then.

You're of course completely right on the twin issue- ten derp points to me.  And yes, I guess I needed bluntness to catch back up on this after not thinking about it for a while.  Consider the FoS dropped.

I'm sending in my cop for Jokerman now.


Actually, the scum this round is largely screwed no matter what happens.  There are too many investigative roles, and Pandar could get more.   Native is probably the best lynch simply for that reason alone.


Native would indeed be a lot less suspicious if he was doing anything else, but Ottofar is barely any better in that regard.  Ottofar, who do you think is scum?  Why?

[Azure Sepulchre]

The huge flaw in your convoluted logic though, is that I claimed last round right after I took over for Org. When I was town, remember? It'd be something of a grand Machiavellian scheme on my part to lie about my role a whole round in advance, in the off chance that I become King Mafia in the next where that my lies finally coalesces into a terrible backfire in my face and causes me to get lynched or killed accidentally. It's the perfect plan.

Or you could be afraid of someone attempting to kill you due to your powerful role, and made up this 'twin' thing to convince any would-be assassin to direct his attacks toward Ottofar instead of you, thereby providing you not only with a one-day-human-shield, but also with a fresh body to go all CSI on.

It's a cool gambit. But it would rather get in the way of... establishing your true innocence - if I want to be diplomatic - and that is why I inquired. I also still want to know why you actually told us who your twin was; you have yet to answer that, and I don't understand why you did it.

Azure: I can certainly understand the survivalist mindset, because that’s the thing that’s going to determine the winner. I just wish you’d spend more time giving us info that I care for instead of justifications for your actions or attitude, or wild theories that can’t possibly be true.

I was asked questions; I answered them. And if I hadn't, you'd probably be trying to tell me off for that instead. I'm also not sure what 'wild theories' you're refering to.

As far as my opinion goes... lynch Native or Otto, by virtue of their shared brazen inactivity and general unhelpfulness. I'd prefer to lynch Otto (he just popped in to vote Joker without any reasoning, at all. I mean... wat), but I'd also be content with lynching Native.

[Ottofar]

Guys, don't forget godfathers.

Anyways, Contradiction in Joker's posts, I voted him.

[Azure Sepulchre]

Aah, yes; silly me. Forgot about the 'I can't inspect people' slip. I've seen far more damning goofs before now, but the fact that Jokerman isn't bothering to clarify himself is rather interesting. We've got extensions going, so I'm gonna lay offa him for now.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Sorry, I'm all kinds of a mess right now. Yes, I can inspect. That's a separate part of my role - the Stalker portion, and not the Cheater. I missed it when I was glancing it over to confirm to myself. I can inspect.

Toaster, please do inspect me. And who am I to inspect this round?

[NativeForeigner]

The reason I didn't fight it more is because I have absolutely no idea how to fight a vote that's because I'm a liability to town. What am I supposed to say, "No, I'm totally not a liability even though I can't be inspected."?

[Toaster]

You could always offer some input on whom you think is scum and why.

[JoshuaFH]

The huge flaw in your convoluted logic though, is that I claimed last round right after I took over for Org. When I was town, remember? It'd be something of a grand Machiavellian scheme on my part to lie about my role a whole round in advance, in the off chance that I become King Mafia in the next where that my lies finally coalesces into a terrible backfire in my face and causes me to get lynched or killed accidentally. It's the perfect plan.

Or you could be afraid of someone attempting to kill you due to your powerful role, and made up this 'twin' thing to convince any would-be assassin to direct his attacks toward Ottofar instead of you, thereby providing you not only with a one-day-human-shield, but also with a fresh body to go all CSI on.

It's a cool gambit. But it would rather get in the way of... establishing your true innocence - if I want to be diplomatic - and that is why I inquired. I also still want to know why you actually told us who your twin was; you have yet to answer that, and I don't understand why you did it.

Azure: I can certainly understand the survivalist mindset, because that’s the thing that’s going to determine the winner. I just wish you’d spend more time giving us info that I care for instead of justifications for your actions or attitude, or wild theories that can’t possibly be true.

I was asked questions; I answered them. And if I hadn't, you'd probably be trying to tell me off for that instead. I'm also not sure what 'wild theories' you're refering to.

Why I actually told you who my twin was? I admit, twins do offer the opportunity to be a bastard if you don't disclose who it is that you're twins with, but in all reality, I didn't think of that at the time.

Looking back, I was so rushed just finding out that I had replaced Org that I didn't realize that when I asked two people to claim, they already had. So I simply didn't think of the possibilities of lying about being a twin or with whom. It just seemed counterproductive to be disingenuous.

Also, the 'wild theory' I was referring to was the whole 'he's lying about being a twin' thing in the first place, since you're the one that invented the theory.

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
NativeForeigner - Pandarsenic, Azure Sepulchre,
JoshuaFH - NativeForeigner,
Azure Sepulchre -
Pandarsenic -
Jokerman-EXE - Ottofar,
Toaster -

Not Voting - Jokerman-EXE, Toaster, JoshuaFH,

4 To Hammer. Day Ends Tuesday 9PM Central. 2 Extensions Requested.

[Pandarsenic]

Extension

Yeah, Josh lying about his twin would be simply ridiculous.

[Toaster]

Yes- I was under intense brainfart when I suggested that.

In any case, I got town on Jokerman.


Native:  You're now L-1.  Who do you think is scum?  Why?  What's your opinion on how best to proceed with the known roles to maximize our knowledge?


Ottofar:  Same questions to you.