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[IronyOwl]

Now, how can the game be broken? Firstly, I'd like you to look at Toaster. As you can plainly see, he is dead.

What does this imply? Well, Native had an action on Pandar, and Pandar claims to have hidden, giving both an alibi for the murder. They are both innocent, presuming no hijinx.

You're right for Native, since there's no way he could have known that and killed Toaster at the same time, but Pandar could be lying about his role. There's a couple that'd make an inspect fail without action on his part.

I highly recommend we lynch LNCP, and besides the fact that I suspect him the most from previous posts anyhow, it prevents busing shenanigans. If he turns out to be town, Irony can karma me (since I'm a suspect in everyone else's eyes) and Pandar can kill Irony, the only other possible suspect.

Of course, if I'm King, then I'd wouldn't be able to risk having my own kill copied back at me, and that would leave us at a 3p tomorrow, where I can be lynched, revived, and then killed in the night again for good measure.

Problem: If you're scum, you don't die from karma, and Pandar gets taken out that night, you'd be a reviving King with only 2 townies and no NK. I guess that's still a stalemate with Native, but I kind of don't like leaning on the PGO like that.

On that note, who were you planning on NKing for my karma to work? That's kind of a big detail.

[NativeForeigner]

How does Karma work?

[JoshuaFH]

Now, how can the game be broken? Firstly, I'd like you to look at Toaster. As you can plainly see, he is dead.

What does this imply? Well, Native had an action on Pandar, and Pandar claims to have hidden, giving both an alibi for the murder. They are both innocent, presuming no hijinx.

You're right for Native, since there's no way he could have known that and killed Toaster at the same time, but Pandar could be lying about his role. There's a couple that'd make an inspect fail without action on his part.

I highly recommend we lynch LNCP, and besides the fact that I suspect him the most from previous posts anyhow, it prevents busing shenanigans. If he turns out to be town, Irony can karma me (since I'm a suspect in everyone else's eyes) and Pandar can kill Irony, the only other possible suspect.

Of course, if I'm King, then I'd wouldn't be able to risk having my own kill copied back at me, and that would leave us at a 3p tomorrow, where I can be lynched, revived, and then killed in the night again for good measure.

Problem: If you're scum, you don't die from karma, and Pandar gets taken out that night, you'd be a reviving King with only 2 townies and no NK. I guess that's still a stalemate with Native, but I kind of don't like leaning on the PGO like that.

On that note, who were you planning on NKing for my karma to work? That's kind of a big detail.

I can target you, if that helps, but I'd like to NONE in case I turn out wrong, and keep it at 3p tomorrow, it would help if it turns out Pandar is lying about his role.

[IronyOwl]

How does Karma work?

I duplicate whatever night action they take, but directed against them.

I can target you, if that helps, but I'd like to NONE in case I turn out wrong, and keep it at 3p tomorrow, it would help if it turns out Pandar is lying about his role.

I think we're going to need a new plan, but if we weren't you'd have to target someone for me to be able to karma you.

[JoshuaFH]

I can target you, if that helps, but I'd like to NONE in case I turn out wrong, and keep it at 3p tomorrow, it would help if it turns out Pandar is lying about his role.

I think we're going to need a new plan, but if we weren't you'd have to target someone for me to be able to karma you.

Why do we need a new plan? I personally cannot see how it would fail. The only way it would fail would be if Native and Pandar's alibi aren't airtight, and I've overlooked something that might have them be scum, otherwise, the three of us are the only suspects, and we can all die with relative safety.

I CAN agree to target you, Irony, though I'm not sure if my own kill duplicated against me would also have a 50% chance of failure. I just think it's a risk. Either way, I'd like Pandar to target you as well

Trust me though, I'd like to die, if only to get a different role than this lame one that I have, but I'd also just like to preclude any chance of failure as well.

I swear, every time I stand in for someone, they always have this lame role I don't want.

[IronyOwl]

Why do we need a new plan? I personally cannot see how it would fail. The only way it would fail would be if Native and Pandar's alibi aren't airtight, and I've overlooked something that might have them be scum, otherwise, the three of us are the only suspects, and we can all die with relative safety.

Native's is, but Pandar's requires he be telling the truth, unless there's some reason he couldn't be an ascetic or something.

I CAN agree to target you, Irony, though I'm not sure if my own kill duplicated against me would also have a 50% chance of failure. I just think it's a risk. Either way, I'd like Pandar to target you as well

Not sure about the first part. Second part would be sound if the plan was, but at this point it's looking less like "we make it physically impossible for scum to win" and more like "we kill each other a lot and then hope that works out."

Part of the problem, as I see it, is that at least one of our kills has a fail rate. If we lynch LNCP, then me, Pandar, and Josh could form a death triangle, but at least one link would only have a 50% chance of working. I nominate myself, for two reasons.

First of all, it might be better for me to karma Pandar because we'd know for a fact that it'd work (unless he's somehow immune to inspects and kills). Secondly, it precludes any shenanigans if LNCP's lying about his revive being lynch-only, since he'd be guaranteed dead once.

That'd leave a 50% chance of Native, either a confirmed townie or unfathomably lucky, as the sole survivor, and a 50% chance of him being alone with me. Unless I'm both scum and have some vote/revive nonsense, that'd leave it at a stalemate.

[JoshuaFH]

Please understand that from my perspective LNCP and you are the only viable suspects. My win condition is to secure both of your deaths, Pandar is just a complication that nags me to heed.

Regardless, I don't think anyone's picked double voter in quite a long time, and I don't think anyone would. In fact, has anyone ever picked double voter? I can't remember.

[NativeForeigner]

The King should just give up. They can't win as long as I'm around (assuming that they don't have a revive or something).

[IronyOwl]

Please understand that from my perspective LNCP and you are the only viable suspects. My win condition is to secure both of your deaths, Pandar is just a complication that nags me to heed.

Why?

[JoshuaFH]

Why what?

[IronyOwl]

Why don't you think Pandar could really be scum?

[JoshuaFH]

Because even if he is, he's going to have a hell of a time winning with Native around.

If he's telling the truth, and is a coward, then he's cleared of suspicion.

If he's lying, and he's an ascetic, then he's not immune to kills, and Native has him locked down already.

And I think the likelihood of him being a double voter as well is so extremely nil that it's a non-worry.

So it's not that I don't think he's scum, it's that I know he can't win as scum. LNCP is worrying, since being a Bus Driver opens some unusual doors.

[IronyOwl]

Right, but that's true for anyone who doesn't have a revive or something.

I'm not sure why LNCP would be immune either, given that he'd have to target Native (and thus die) to affect him.

[JoshuaFH]

Also, I trust Pandar because that "WA suggested me the role" statement would be one hell of a lie to pull out of your ass like that on a moment's notice. That leaves only you and him in my eyes.

I just feel more comfortable lynching him first, rereading the first day, he seemed the most suspicious.

I am saying he is more suspicious than you Irony, and would like to lynch him first. I didn't realize this discussion was going to as roundabout as it has been.

There is the possibility of someone lying about their role, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. If you can think of something more foolproof, throw it right at me.

[IronyOwl]

Also, I trust Pandar because that "WA suggested me the role" statement would be one hell of a lie to pull out of your ass like that on a moment's notice. That leaves only you and him in my eyes.

Well, he'd have been thinking about it previously, so I don't think it'd be that impressive, but fair point.

I just feel more comfortable lynching him first, rereading the first day, he seemed the most suspicious.

I am saying he is more suspicious than you Irony, and would like to lynch him first. I didn't realize this discussion was going to as roundabout as it has been.

I was referring to the "if Pandar's scum it still won't matter" bit.

There is the possibility of someone lying about their role, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. If you can think of something more foolproof, throw it right at me.

I already suggested it: We lynch LNCP, you kill me, Pandar kills you, I karmakill Pandar. It results in either everyone dead, just me alive if your kill fails, or just a now-mortal you if you're lying about your revive. Barring fairly severe shenanigans, that's a fairly ironclad stalemate at worst.