Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Earthquake Damage]

After some musing, here's an interesting idea:  the no-magic challenge.  No magic items.  No spells.  No Bhaal powers.  Exceptions are plot-critical usage only (i.e. I'm pretty sure you need to use the Pocket Plane ability in ToB), but only for the main quest.

In BG2 there is a heavy crossbow with a +5 to hit item bonus, I think that is on top of it's normal +2 for a total of +7. There are also tons of magical bolts that are very good. There were a couple of light crossbows that were pretty good. I think there was one that shot multiple times per round like a bow.

That said, bows still seemed to be better, but you might as well give one of your two handed fighters a crossbow, as there will be some cool ones at some point that are pretty good with a Bolt of Biting for example, especially if you just have them fire a bolt before charging in or while waiting for bad guys to advance so the one shot per round isn't as big a deal.

Crossbows get one attack per round (IIRC no different from most melee weapons).  Bows get 2 or 3 (not sure).  Darts get 2 or 3 (I think 3).  Throwing daggers get 2 IIRC.  So bows are generally the best ranged weapons.  Moreover, I'm pretty sure the best bows (the ones with an endless supply of magical arrows, such as the Bow of Gesen and IIRC Tansheron's Bow) are all short bows.  There's at least one awesome dart, though:  Crimson Dart +3 (or whatever -- maybe it's a dagger, not a dart?).  Crossbows are relatively inferior, with few exceptions.  The best one has unlimited +4 ammo IIRC, but still has 1 APR.

Also, fun fact:  Launchers with unlimited ammo deal huge damage if you equip ammo with them.  Equipped ammo effects (including damage, to-hit bonus, and everything else) stack with their inherent ammo.  The equipped ammo's enchantment level takes precedence, though (i.e. normal arrows fired from the Bow of Gesen are considered non-magical weapons).  ToB offers bottomless quivers of up to +3 (IIRC) ammo for all three launcher types (bow, crossbow, sling) though, which lets you approach melee damage levels.

[3]

Solo Wizard Slayer run. Hah.

[lemon10]

Spoiler: On insane solo poverty run, think this discussion might have run its course (but i still wan't to get a few words in), so ill spoiler it (click to show/hide)

Equipment restrictions are part of your character.  To compare apples with apples, consider a Fighter versus a Barbarian.  Barbarians have more special abilities, including some physical damage resistance at high levels.  Fighters, on the other hand, can wear heavy armor and achieve grandmastery (rather than mere specialization).  An unarmored Fighter with bare fists loses all but two class benefits:  great hit points and saving throws (at high levels, anyway).  Even non-magical gear turns such a waste of space into a force to be reckoned with.  Also, bare fists being nonlethal stops warriors cold.
IMO the point of a poverty challenge is you can't use all the fancy toys and, perhaps more importantly, powerful expendables (potions &c).  Banning even basic equipment turns it into a Spells-and-Monks challenge.  Banning magical gear (which covers potions, scrolls, and such) would be enough of a challenge, especially since so many monsters are entirely immune to normal weapons.  My proposed mod would fix that last point without giving you the hit/damage and other benefits normally associated with magical weapons (since the game engine stores the enchantment level, to-hit bonus, and damage bonus as separate variables).
As for allowing temples, there are several mandatory encounters with level-draining creatures.  Without scrolls, most classes would force you to save/reload until you survive without taking a hit.  I don't think the point of a challenge is "reload until the RNG gives you perfect rolls".
Of course, if this were NWN (or maybe IWD2), a no-items challenge would be possible, if still damned hard, for most classes.

The challenge isn't possible for pretty much every clase (with enough save scumming a monk might be able to do it, otherwise only sorcerer).
It's impossible for warriors, its (essentially) impossible for thiefs, its (essentially) impossible for clerics/druids, impossible for paladins, barbarians, and (if you count reading scrolls) non sorcerer mages.
If you use items (excluding quest items), then it's not a no-item run. If you use money (except where you need them to advance in the plot), then it's not a poverty run. If you ever change the difficulty from insane, then it's not a insane run. It's as simple as that.
If you say "but my warrior needs a weapon and armor to win", well then he could play a insane solo poverty run.
If you say "but my monk needs to use the temple to restore levels to win", then he could play a insane solo no-item run.

After some musing, here's an interesting idea:  the no-magic challenge.  No magic items.  No spells.  No Bhaal powers.  Exceptions are plot-critical usage only (i.e. I'm pretty sure you need to use the Pocket Plane ability in ToB), but only for the main quest.

This amuses me, its basically the opposite of a no-item run.

Do all ToB class abilities count as magic, or only some of them (i would assume that fighter/most theif abilities would be fair game to use)?
What is a magic item, does it include potions? scrolls? summon items? enchanted weapon/armor (eg. +1 armor)?

[Earthquake Damage]

Do all ToB class abilities count as magic, or only some of them (i would assume that fighter/most theif abilities would be fair game to use)?
What is a magic item, does it include potions? scrolls? summon items? enchanted weapon/armor (eg. +1 armor)?

The HLAs thing is a judgment call, but I'd say it's more class-dependent than anything.  Fighters and Thieves have mostly non-magical abilities, though that Time Stop trap is very much debatable.  I'd say the same goes for Monks.  Primary spellcasters have mostly magical abilities, but secondary ones (Bards, Paladins, Rangers) are more varied.  Fighters get Whirlwind and IIRC so do Paladins, so I'd file that under non-magical.  Summon Deva, however, is clearly magical.

As for magic items, I mean all magic items.  Everything you listed counts, as do most miscellaneous ones you didn't (e.g. Horn of Blasting).  I think there are some magic weapons without a +X (like a returning throwing dagger or something).  The point is to avoid magic as much as possible, using your best judgment of what is or is not magic.

EDIT:  For encounters where you absolutely positively must kill something that requires +X weapons, I'd apply the plot-critical exception, but only if you have no other way to kill it.  If your Thief can get the job done with traps (may be impossible for certain bosses or whatever), you're stuck using traps instead of weapons.

EDIT:  To clarify more, I'd again say to use your best judgment as to what monsters you "must kill".  Bodhi is obvious, as you can't complete the main quest without killing her.  The underlings that fight alongside her in that same encounter, who I'm pretty sure don't technically need to die to progress, may or may not count.  Mandatory encounters that you can flee and still complete the main quest may or may not count.  Be aware that you only need to win the game, so sidequests and optional parts of the main quest (e.g. Ust Natha) should never warrant the plot-critical exception.  It really boils down to how hardcore you want your no-magic run to be.

[Ochita]

You can't do a no magic run, there are monsters that are immune to normal weaponry!

[Sartain]

I'm doing a "Not playing the game at all" run right now, hows that for a challenge?

[neotemplar]

Ok does Branwen ever get any healing beyond light wounds?  Seriously I could use it a bit.  Also Ajantis is like a dire charm magnet.  Good thing he can't hit my main character's -5 AC.  Aj also seems impotent on defense, Ankegs keep tearing him apart.

[Ochita]

You need to be lv5 before you get better healing.

[neotemplar]

Girl needs to level then

Also dang Vampire wolves are nasty workers.

[neotemplar]

Look at all the smurfs running in terror!  Also Branwen is now lv 5 and still no new heals.  However her fancy undead (pictured) are quite helpful.

[Sartain]

Isn't Branwen a druid?
Pretty sure they have stunted healing spell progression, meaning you'll have to wait a level or 2 more I think.
Been a LONG time since I read AD&D rules, though.

[ed boy]

Branwen is a cleric.

Since she's level 5, she should be able to cast level 3 spells, of which cure medum wounds is what you will likely be interested in.

[Sartain]

Branwen is a cleric.

Since she's level 5, she should be able to cast level 3 spells, of which cure medum wounds is what you will likely be interested in.

Huh... I could have sworn she was a druid and one of the druids you encounter again in BG2, during the druid stronghold quest

Edit: Oh wait, thats Faldorn. Branwens the one without any sort of context or backstory, thats right.

Still, don't you have to be level 6 to cast level 3 spells?

[neotemplar]

This is her lv 3 spell sheet.  She is a cleric.  I don't see medium wounds anywhere. (totally lv 5 here)  Also remember I'm playing a vanilla BG I, not II so that might be throwing stuff off.

Also animate dead rocks to distract enemy casters.  Go ahead and fireball some skellys I could care less.

I'm totally failing to finish every mini quest which is awesome as it's replay fodder


OK according to the on disk manual.  There is no cure moderate wounds... NONE.    kinda odd...

At lv 4 spells I can get cure serious wounds and at level 5 cure critical.

[Ochita]

This is her lv 3 spell sheet.  She is a cleric.  I don't see medium wounds anywhere. (totally lv 5 here)  Also remember I'm playing a vanilla BG I, not II so that might be throwing stuff off.

Also animate dead rocks to distract enemy casters.  Go ahead and fireball some skellys I could care less.

I'm totally failing to finish every mini quest which is awesome as it's replay fodder

Do the miniquests, get items carried over, like the ultima sword.